A full-time unspecialized job trades one kind of oppression for a lesser one

February 24, 2015, 4:28 pm

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The debate "A full-time unspecialized job trades one kind of oppression for a lesser one" was started by I_Voyager on February 24, 2015, 4:28 pm. 15 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 5 people are on the disagree side. People are starting to choose their side. It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.

I_Voyager posted 5 arguments to the agreers part.
PsychDave posted 5 arguments to the disagreers part.

I_Voyager, BabyT14, Hollister_boy, Martin2489, Haelaeif, priyanshukedia and 9 visitors agree.
PsychDave, LeaderOfDiscussion and 3 visitors disagree.

And that is assuming you don't have kids with regards to that last sentence. But even just having that ten hours a week is going to go from forcing you to sleep part-time, as I've seen many young wives do, breaking themselves down into nervous wrecks, Now, living in Canada people living on this scale can be thankful our laws ensure our employers give us enough to work 40 hours a week and still get by thanks to a high minimum wage and the opportunity to get benefits. So it's possible for a couple working full-time minimum wage to live together and afford a place and enjoy their relationship. I suspect in the USA it's MUCH harder, and elsewhere in the world the wages are so unlivable that the idea of being able to do more than just survive and work 60 hour weeks and not at all hang onto your sanity is a certainty.

4 years, 7 months ago
I_Voyager
replied to...

I'd unpack my family history and personal history to explain how it's a fundamental nature of mine to search in contrary places for other truths, but it'd take forever. I just ask you take it as a well-considered point that it is within my nature to not follow trends and come up with new ideas instead. But most people I know have a fear of or obsession with living up to the ideals of society and observing laws, as if all the rebelliousness of the Hippy generation had been forgotten.

Now, I'm not saying pursuing the stuff of life like a relationship is bad. I'm saying that 40 hours is just enough to consume your life. Let's break it down to math. I've got 168 hours in my week. Most people need to spend 56 hours a week sleeping in a routine to stay mentally healthy. Most studies suggest less is harmful to a human's psychology, which would include lessening their ability to change, grow or learn. It'd feed into the neurological pemise I gave earlier. I've got 10 hours a day left, 72 hours in the week. Many people spend 1-3 hours a shift commuting to work. So 60-70 hours a week. Life maintenance takes a bit of time. Laundry, food, general cleaning, shitting, peeing, eating. 40 minutes a day cooking split between the couple, another 20-30 minutes each actually eating. I'd say an average of two hours worth of cleaning every day divided between the couple. An hour of relationship time a day to keep the relationship alive, split unevenly throughout the week. I'd say 3-6 hours a week of recreation of some kind to keep the stress levels down enough, more ideally. One television show a day or an hour gaming and an outing event with the spouse or a friend. You're left with 40 hours a week of excess time, which sounds like a lot, but it's spread out inbetween everything you're doing. You're not going to nail down a 3 hour period of time like I can three or four days a week, and you ought to be spending an hour exorcizing or getting some kind of fitness to be healthy anywho. And if you've got kids that's going to suck all that up. Which is fine, children need that attention. But the point is if you really want to be able to write a book around that or learn how to program or go to school, you're not going to be able to do the work and still stay healthy. And believe me, the stress of living pay-cheque to pay-cheque with no future in sight is enough to make change hard.

Cutting it down to 30 hours of work, saving those 10 hours, is going to give you that opportunity.

4 years, 7 months ago

So you feel that people are oppressed by their jobs because changing is hard, so they don't do it? That doesn't sound like the job is the problem. Throughout your response, you blame the job, society, and that people have been brainwashed for preventing people from changing, but it hasn't stopped you. There are always reasons not to change, and there are always other things taking up time. It is up the each person what to prioritize. If a relationship is more important than career advancement, that isn't a bad decision. There is nothing wrong with people deciding to be stay at home parents, and that is the extreme of putting relationship before career.

Throughout your arguments, I have yet to see an example of how the job is the oppressive force. A job pays you am agrees upon wage for fulfilling agreed upon duties. If you aren't being paid what you earn, or are being asked to go above and beyond what is in your job description, then you have an argument, but that is very few jobs, and laws exist to protect your rights in these cases. Retail may not be a dream job for most people, but that doesn't mean you are being oppressed because you are employed.

4 years, 7 months ago

I'm not working full-time, but have part-time for many years. This gives me time and I try to use it wisely. But in my observations of friends or family that work full-time but would want to move towards a higher goal and do something more meaningful with their time is thay just having one or two other reasonable priorities - let's say a relationship as an example, though other examples could suffice - kills any momentum that could be built towards going in another direction. Generally, that stress requires a great deal of stress-release, and though learning is pleasurable, it is an effort that requires a little physical and mental preperation to do well. Creation can be similar. Neuroscience observes that even small adrenaline responses can shut down for ahort periods entire segments of the pre-frontal cortex and the long-term result is primacy of the neural networks formed by the amygdala and other hind-brain parts and an atrophying of other networks, and the scarring of certain pathways that makes the adrenaline response stronger and other responses weaker. The pattern I see in many people from 25-50 is that at first the stress boils away the pleasure of things and makes easier the repition of menial tasks and bearing the pressure of minimum wage management, which is not exceeded by the workplaces of those specialiasts I know, or at least isn't balanced by the stress release of higher wage. But there are all sorts of directions people could move toward without schooling or great innvestment if they had the time or mind. But they do not, nor cannot, because they are the oppressed consumers, buying the fruits of broke-back slavery we demand of other lands.

4 years, 7 months ago

That is the problem. This view is not about self-actualization, it is not about moving forward, and it is not about trying to improve either your own situation or the world. This view is about blaming your dissatisfaction on someone so that you don't have to feel motivated to do anything. Finding a scapegoat never solves anything and, by abdicating responsibility, there is no longer any reason to try. You aren't failing because you aren't trying, you are failing because you are oppressed.

I am not speaking about you specifically. From the sounds of it you are motivated, and have clear goals that you are working towards. So how is an unspecialized job oppressing you? It hasn't stopped you from learning, writing, game designing, or doing anything else. It may cut into the time you have to do these things, but it is not oppression to be asked to do what you were hired to do in exchange for the wages you were promised.

4 years, 7 months ago

Don't get me wrong, I understand markets and economy. And although I oft feel hopeless, I always move towards a goal. I have a teutonic value system, I would walk through flame for honor. I am always learning, or creating. I AM learning to program on the Unity engine, I bought the future of computing (augmented reality glasses), I have 45k words down for the first in a series of novels and I've spent enough time studying classic literature to know how the Iliad relates to the modern economic value system. And I can tell you about quantum mechanics and neuroscience, I can teach you about Bertrand Russel and Ayn Rand, I can tell you why A Brave New World and 1984 can be combined to effectively detail the dystopia of the modern age. And I can cite Hyperion and Accelerando to paint a picture for how to fix that and allude to how we can achieve the technological singularity without all becoming the borg.

And maybe all that will land me some financial independence to pursue open source science and engineering projects, literary studies, philisophical designs and creative writing. But I can't resist my rebellious tendencies. Or won't. There are too many problems. Too much social decay, too much control, too much misinformation, too much momentum in the piwer center and too much apathy giving way before it.

4 years, 7 months ago

Voyager, what is your dream job? What would give you everything thing you want and fill your life with joy? If it is international man of mystery, I don't have a lot of answers for you, but I'd you have a career you want, what is it? Maybe someone on here cam come up with a way to at least move to closer to its that, if there is ever an opening, you are the most qualified to fill it.

4 years, 7 months ago

If what you want to do is barred by law, you probably shouldn't be doing it. If what you want is Barry by the economy, what are you doing to try to get a foot in the door? Many people say that they can't do what they want because it's to hard, there aren't enough jobs, they don't know where to start, or any other perfectly valid excuse. I am not advocating quitting your job and starting from scratch expecting to make it but in a week, but if you haven't made any plans, haven't tried anything, and aren't even looking for a way to make your dreams come true, it isn't fair to blame the job that is letting you pay the bills for your lack of happiness.

If you want to be the the video game industry, learn what it takes to build a game. Practice your art skills if you are so inclined, or use a game engine to make games, or learn to write smartphone apps. Do something that gets you one tiny step closer. If you make it, you have what you wanted. If you don't you have a hobby, some useful skills and something that gives you joy.

If you want to sell real estate, research the markets. Apply for office jobs at a real estate company. Do something to get your foot in the door.

Long story short, there are always things people could do that would take them closer to their dream job. It may only be a tiny step, but if you aren't making that step, you can hardly blame everyone else if you aren't satisfied.

4 years, 7 months ago

It's not that eady for most. Most of us work cash registers and stock shelves because there are no other opportunities available. Law or cold economy bars more from achoeving that happiness than motivationism moves peole to their magical fream job.

4 years, 7 months ago

If that is how you feel, you are in the wrong job. Some people spend years on a degree and, when they graduate, find that they would rather do something they love than what they went to school for. Someone who is a PhD running a daycare may seem like a waste of potential, but who are you to judge. If someone is happy with their job, great. If they are not, they should find something that will make them happy.

4 years, 7 months ago
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