A society that doesnt provide Justice does not deserve Peace

May 31, 2020, 5:07 am

Agree116 Disagree31

79%
21%

The debate "A society that doesnt provide Justice does not deserve Peace" was started by Nemiroff on May 31, 2020, 5:07 am. 116 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 31 people are on the disagree side. That might be enough to see the common perception. It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.

Nemiroff posted 23 arguments to the agreers part.
Allirix posted 4 arguments, jrardin12 posted 9 arguments, Nemiroff posted 1 argument, Clint1234 posted 23 arguments to the disagreers part.

TRUELOVE, PL, Indra_Sharma, gowtama, sameen99, dump_trump, ChrisUste, migu, carlo, cassiopeia, Nemiroff, DavidTheGreat, Logan_Spalding, Aphyllous, Proking and 101 visitors agree.
Allirix, jrardin12, Yatumba, britishwolf, Clint1234, Gallika and 25 visitors disagree.

Nemiroff
replied to...

i dont believe in any god who rewards based on faith instead of deeds, sounds like a vain evil god. like a king who rewards loyalty to him rather than good works for the nation.

4 months ago
Nemiroff
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"god is my god... he is everyones god... that god has a son named jesus".

you do realize muslims, hindus, and everyone else make the same claim, except the jesus part. again, i get your conviction, but do you get how this isnt convincing anyone? we are discussing worldly justice, law, and police. you are free to discuss abortion or god, but please make relevant topics for those. im not hell bent on abortion, but that is far from the only policy in play. if i agree with republicans on abortion but disagree on science, economy, justice, and law, im voting against them.

my political priority is to get money out of politics. republicans try to increase the amount of money in politics, including dark money, under the guise of freedom. this silences the voices of those who cannot afford. i believe 1 person, 1 vote; not more money, more influence. im voting democrat.

4 months ago
Clint1234
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But I got to ask you a question, do you believe in God?

4 months ago
Clint1234
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It is not my God, it's Everybody's God.

4 months ago
Clint1234
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And I'm not dancing lol

4 months ago
Clint1234
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No, god is my god

4 months ago
Nemiroff
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aka your god?

your just dancing around the point now.

the point is, "god says so" is weak argument to someone who doesnt believe in your god. you may think your making an awesome point, but it is a waste of breathe and text. sorry.

praying for change is the same as praying the cancer away. what is the success rate for that? 1 person a decade?

4 months ago
Clint1234
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God don't help those who help themselves, he help those who need help.

4 months ago
Clint1234
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I not saying they should believe in my god, I'm saying they should believe in the god that made their soul.

4 months ago
Clint1234
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And saying he a good man doesn't excuse what happened

4 months ago
Nemiroff
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god helps those who help themselves.

4 months ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

are you saying there was justice before the protests? are you saying there werent meant peaceful protest before this year that were totally ignored?

the problems are not with cops, but with policing, judging, and many aspects of government. floyd wasn't commiting a crime at the moment, his crimes were in the past and he payed his price. he was just a citizen going about his day. bringing up his past does NOTHING to excuse what happened.

and even tho you admitted it still should not have happened, what was the point of bringing up crime from years past? he was not commiting a crime, he was not resisting. and why does this type of unlawful murder keep happening to a specific group of people?

4 months ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

im sure your conviction is strong, as is the conviction of those who believe in other gods, and they also believe that all people should worship their true God.

when you say they should worship your God, do you mean that worship in your God should be enforced? what do you think of freedom of religion?

if you believe religion should not be enforced, then how can you justify a law based soley off of your religion and with no worldly explanation?

4 months ago
Clint1234
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And if I wish the law to change, I will pray for it and not protest like a idiot.

4 months ago
Clint1234
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Do you believe that when one cops kills a black person then that means all cops are bad? Cause the cops save more black the they killed. People need to stop saying George Floyd was a good man. I mean He shouldn't have been killed, but face the fact that he was a criminal.

4 months ago
Clint1234
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but tell me this how do you think someone would want to give you Justice if you are not giving them peace. I'm talking about the law would have gave the protesters Justice, but then they started damaging and stealing.

4 months ago
Clint1234
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What wrong with pork and beef, that's good

4 months ago
Clint1234
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Everyone should believe in the god that made the world and made us human. The god that has a son name jesus.

4 months ago
Nemiroff
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not all people believe in the same god. maybe you should stop eating pork and beef, while praying many many more times a day. if you wish to change law over all, you must make worldly reasons imo.

to wish otherwise can be a subjective experience depending on who is on top and has a long history of wars with disagreeing nations. i would prefer to avoid that.

any response to the futility of peaceful protests in the last decade? why do you think nobody listened?

4 months ago

Yes I agree with you on abandoning abortion

4 months ago

Abortion is murder, cause god chooses when someone dies. The people that are killing the babies don't have the right to choose when someone dies.

4 months ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

abortion is only murder if you believe the fetus is a person. some do some dont. i think it depends on the age of the fetus, but i wouldnt mind banning abortion if we properly support single mothers and properly fund orphanages. either way, abortion is not a central issue for me. probably cause im a man. black people dont protest it because it is a voluntary medical procedure they can choose or refuse, and white people abort aplenty.

lets leave abortion for the abortion chat.

black people protested peacefully every killing over the last decade. george floyd was not the first, and those peaceful protests did nothing. the definition of stupid is doing something that doesnt work, and continuing to do it. we ignored their peaceful protest, is that their fault?

the British ignored the colonists, so the "sons of liberty" burned down houses of loyalists and destroyed a large shipment of produce. they did this over taxes, not killings. i think killings would create more outrage.

4 months, 1 week ago
Clint1234
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And sorry for getting mad at you

4 months, 1 week ago
Clint1234
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Those that protest are not stupid, but the one that destroy and steal are stupid. Black lives do matter and jesus debated that a long time ago, he died for all of us. Tell me this why aren't people protesting about the abortion clinics that is killing black lives every day.

4 months, 1 week ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

so does your silence mean you approve of denying peace if justice is denied as our founding fathers did to England and as Black people are doing today?

4 months, 1 week ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

so are you saying the founding fathers were wrong to protest and destroy property?

4 months, 2 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

if you claim flat earth, you need to learn science.
if you claim 2+2=3, you need to learn math.
you claimed the founding fathers have nothing to do with demands of justice and refusing peace, you need to learn your history.

the lack of justice predates the refusal of peace.

4 months, 2 weeks ago
Clint1234
replied to...

No Peace No Justice. You can't get away with the law, so give the law peace and the law will give you justice

4 months, 2 weeks ago
Clint1234
replied to...

And quit putting words in my mouth

4 months, 2 weeks ago
Clint1234
replied to...

Don't tell me what I need to learn.

4 months, 2 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

so you think our founding fathers have nothing to do with rebellion in pursuit of justice????
wow, learn your history.

our founding fathers believed they did not receive justice. so they didnt give the British peace.

4 months, 2 weeks ago
Clint1234
replied to...

You got me confused, What does founding father have anything to do with peace and justice

4 months, 2 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

so the founding fathers were wrong to revolt and rebel?

4 months, 2 weeks ago
Clint1234
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If you never remain peace, would you get Justice?

4 months, 2 weeks ago
Clint1234
replied to...

If you can't give peace to the law then your not gonna get no Justice

4 months, 2 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

if you never recieve justice, would you remain peaceful? did the founding fathers?

4 months, 2 weeks ago

If you don't give peace than do you really think your gonna get Justice

4 months, 2 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

justice varies from one person to another? seriously?

4 months, 3 weeks ago

deserve is varying from one person to another so you cant really say as a fact if they are or not. but what I can say is the ones without justice tend to be more peaceful on the outside.

4 months, 3 weeks ago
safalcon7
replied to...

Yes. You cant expect peace from especially the revolting people within a society youre not providing justice with all in uniform level

5 months, 3 weeks ago

Democrats are the ones who make sure that blacks can't go to better schools, stop and frisk was from Democrat Mike Bloomberg's decision and Democrats have made it to the point where jobs are drooling for black workers to say they have more diversity and get more benefits.

5 months, 3 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

when your neighborhood has worthless schools, you get stopped and frisked going to buy groceries, and employers are less likely to hire, your pretending its fair and square?

sure they get to run the race, except they start 50 yards back and get kicked in both shins. sure your not the one that kicked them, but you still won a rigged race. want a medal?

5 months, 3 weeks ago

But that is their choice. I know many Blacks and Latinos who come from the hood and they tell me that many young men prefer being in gangs and doing drugs than getting an education. So who's fault is it? Not mine and that is for sure.

5 months, 3 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

but we dont have many people from all ethnic groups succeeding, we have a handful of people from certain ethnic groups succeeding, while most struggle for survival.

unless you think the majority of black people are simply lazy bums... whose the racist now?

saying most black people dont succeed is simply fact.
saying most black people dont succeed because they are all lazy is racist.

5 months, 3 weeks ago

Blacks have made it were I haven't.

5 months, 3 weeks ago

*not have.

5 months, 3 weeks ago

Not true or else we would have many people from all ethnic groups succeeding

5 months, 3 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

thats the myth. reality: america has some of the lowest social mobility amongstb1st world nation. the biggest predictor of success in america is where you are born, not how hard you try.

5 months, 3 weeks ago

I wasn't talking about just billionaires I was also talking about blacks who are millionaires or just business owners. In other words if you are poor in America it is your choice.

5 months, 3 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

according to business insider February 2020

5 months, 3 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

there are 607 billionaires in USA. 5 are black. racism lies in denying truth, aka you.

5 months, 3 weeks ago

Handful of exceptions! You are very racist!

5 months, 3 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

a tiny handful of exceptions doesnt change the mass of people held back by private market discriminations in lending and hiring, or official discrimination in enforcement and justice.

your focusing on a handful of thriving trees in a dying forest.

5 months, 3 weeks ago

If there were opression we wouldn't have black millionaires and billionaires.

5 months, 3 weeks ago

Now I know you are ignorant. MLK was assassinated and many things changed.

5 months, 3 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

if a society insists on oppressing or discriminating a population, it deserves the retaliation from that population. obviously they do not deserve eternal unrest, how long they live without peace is entirely dependent on the society.

5 months, 3 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

mlk's peace got him assassinated

5 months, 3 weeks ago

I still disagree with the overall idea that the society does not deserve peace though

5 months, 3 weeks ago
Allirix
replied to...

I agree that expecting them to behave is silly. Especially in the USA where the right to bear arms exists to literally allow citizens to revolt against a government that doest represent them.

5 months, 3 weeks ago

It's like Lelouch's ends justify the means vs Suszaku's change from within strategies for reforming totalitarianism if you've seen Code Geass, the show they're from.

5 months, 3 weeks ago

Pretty sure MLK would not agree.

5 months, 3 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

yeah, im not saying they should be invaded by foreign powers. but if you have a population treated unjustly, expecting them to quietly behave is irrational. it may take time, but it will explode eventually. and i cant blame them.

5 months, 3 weeks ago

It deserves peace from other societies, but not from its own members of society. If a society is not just to its citizens then the citizens should demand justice, and if ignored, should be able to resort to non-peaceful measures. If the citizens are a minority and do not have the power to demand anything, then and outside force should be allowed to help. But the outside force should not resort to non-peaceful measures.

5 months, 3 weeks ago

Depends.

5 months, 3 weeks ago
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