The debate "A suggestion for a history youtube series that resonates with modern politics" was started by
June 16, 2019, 10:01 pm.
20 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 5 people are on the disagree side.
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historybuff posted 3 arguments to the agreers part.
historybuff, YonkiMonoso, romeroa251, mtbtheboss, Hopetown27, Persephone, Agrumentman and 13 visitors agree.
5 visitors disagree.
The Grachii ended up dead. They weren't exactly winners.
But the lesson of the fall of the republic is that every time you break these norms and traditions it emboldens others to go further. From the grachii to Marius to Sulla to Pompey. Until finally someone crosses the Rubicon and the republic is dead. It doesn't matter what party the winner belongs to if winning means tyranny.
the video didnt really mention his, or his brother's, lust for power. maybe some self righteousness. the series seems to focus on perspective, rather then a neutral recollection as would typically be studied.
but the outcome may depend on a factor you didnt consider. the custom breaker was ultimately the winner. if Democrats win long term, the broken customs could become stronger from the lessons learned. since the winners were not the ones breaking norms.
True. it is not a 1 to 1 relationship to current events. But it does resonate with the modern situation. The Grachii thought they knew what was best and were willing to tear down any system, any rule, any custom to force through their vision of what Rome should be. They likely believe this would be best for the people, but there was also a fair amount of personal ambition and lust for power that fueled them. Not to mention some revenge as well.
American politics has been doing this for some time. Trump is just a more extreme example of it. When the republicans refused to have a hearing for Obama's supreme court pick, it was the same problem. What they did wasn't illegal. But it violated the custom that had always been followed for crass political reasons. Highlighted even more by the fact that they have openly admitted the argument they made was bullshit.
There are alot of lessons that can be taken from the fall of the roman republic. America based large chunks of their political system on the Roman model. And it is possible that the American republic will meet a similar end, in the hands of tyrants.
this seems opposite of modern era in a way.
instead of shattering political norms in order to help the common folk, our current situation is the shattering of political norms for personal greed and power.
the result was not pretty but we may have a way back. trump pretends to be a populist, but besides his migrant policy, what other parts of him are populist? his unpopular trade war? unpopular tax cuts? unpopular health care repeal? hes a elitist in the capital sence, not the educated sense. he is the old Roman Senate, not the populist brothers your video talks about. and when the norm breaking comes from nefarious source, it can end up reinforcing and strengthening those norms long term.
This isn't exactly a debate topic, but since I have referenced this stuff in other debates I thought I would put this here. If you have a bit of free time it is worth watching.
The fall of the roman republic and the rise of the roman empire has alot similarities to what is going on now in US politics. The undermining of political norms to fuel personal ambition and greed. The use of violence (or at least the threat of violence) to attempt to silence political enemies (and journalists).
The link is to the 1st episode of a short series on the Gracchi brothers who used populism to try to do what they thought was best for the people. The result was the destruction of political norms, abuse of public office and lots of death. This pattern would continue to accelerate until civil wars led to the death of the republic.