The debate "After the disgrace of the Trump Presidency Christians can no longer say what's right and wrong" was started by
December 21, 2019, 4:21 pm.
17 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 17 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
There is a tie in this debate, post your arguments, call some reinforcements and break this tie.
historybuff posted 4 arguments to the agreers part.
jrardin12 posted 7 arguments, pompom posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
Entropyrose, historybuff, Dez000 and 14 visitors agree.
Light, jrardin12, pompom, Dij748, MrShine and 12 visitors disagree.
And who would that be exactly?
But you have voted for people who have no problem with killing babies.
I do care about people's religious beliefs. My problem is when they are massive hypocrites about them. If you honestly believe in Christianity, that is great. Live by those rules. But to say that you are a christian and then support hate and bigotry means that you either aren't actually a christian, or you are a massive hypocrite who just likes to use their religion as a tool when it is convenient to do so.
Which religious institutions have democrats threatened to take away tax exempt status?
I don't deny Trump has done good things. Like all human beings he is capable of both good and bad. The problem is that his effects are overwhelmingly bad. Peace talks with korea are fine, but he didn't actually accomplish anything. The USMCA made minor tweaks to NAFTA. That's hardly much of a win. His negative impacts have been much more profound.
1st of all, I was born and raised a christian. I understand Christianity just fine. I understand that people sin. No one is perfect. But I have never voted for someone who advocated for the permanent separation of children from their families, much less someone who has absolutely no remorse about doing so. I don't feel Christianity is compatible with the fear and hate of others. The bible is extremely explicit that what you do to the least of people, you do to jesus. If you feel that ripping children away from their families forever is compatible with Christianity, then you clearly don't understand Christianity.
Well said @pompom.
You are obviously taking religious stances in bad faith. You don't know/care about anyone's religious beliefs but you are attempting to use them to shame them for supporting a President who, in your clearly biased opinion, is an evil person.
One of the several things you don't seem to understand about religion and politics is religious people tend to support the person least likely to infringe on their religious practices not the person most likely to practice their religion, there is a large distinction there. Democrats regularly try and influence and smear religious institutions, going so far as to threaten to take away tax-exempt status from religious institutions. Trump has never made such threats and has never insinuated a need to. He was an obvious choice for someone who is religious.
Your blind hatred for Trump isn't unique, most leftists start foaming at the mouth when his name is mentioned. They literally can't conceive a scenario where anything he has done is good, like the First Step Act, the USMCA, tax reform, peace talks on the Korean peninsula, pulling troops out of the middle east, etc. So leftists are constantly attacking Trump, but saying religious people are wrong for supporting him is weak. What was the alternative? Clinton? Bernie? Can you make a religious case for those two? I'll save you time, you can't because you have a rudimentary understanding of Christianity or religious people in general. Martin Luther King was serial adulterer, should we change our perspective on the civil rights movement because its leader was a sinner? Spoiler alert, everyone is a sinner.
Well, Trump has nominated many judges that are against abortion. He is for defunding PP. Don't forget Title X. President Trump has said he is pro-life.
While Trump can't get rid of same-sex marriage, like Obama could force the courts to enforce it. Trump is for traditional Biblical marriage. Again, divorce is allowed in the Bible.
As for the tax cuts, 90% of Americans have benefited. Americans are receiving $2,200 from Child Tax Credit. 9,000 Opportunity Zones were created helping 35 million Americans. What do the Dems offer? Raisin taxes. Job's have been created in the energy sector that had been almost destroyed by the Dems.
As for criminal justice reform there is the First Step Act.
@historybuff, While the Bible says that God puts and gets rid of rulers, I never have and never will say Trump was "sent by God" anymore than Obama was. Second, we are all sinners, even Christians. No one on earth is perfect.
If Trump locked up kids in small cages...so did Obama? Is Obama more perfect than Trump? Next, although I am white I live in Mexico City and have lived here all my life. Additionally all my friends are brown, I have 0 white friends. My girlfriend is Mexican and as brown as any Mexican. As Mexicans we know that lying is a big cultural blot. People down here will lie to your face in every circumstance if they have to. You want to talk about corruption, Mexico is the country (I am surprised they are not more corrupt than Ukraine). Down here we know about the Zetas the Coyotes and everyone else involved with trafficking drugs or children. We also know that kids are sent by themselves to the US border on their own. It is not a conspiracy theory. My Mexican friends and I see it.
So it is fine for christian groups to say a politicians is "sent by god" when doesn't know anything about the bible and constantly commits sins? That is massive hypocrisy. Either those things are sins and trump should be held to account for them, or they aren't sins and their religion has no merit. The fact that they want to apply those rules to most people, but want to give trump a pass shows they don't actually give a shit about the rules of their religion when it benefits them to ignore them.
Your 2nd paragraph is mostly just ignorance and conspiracy theory to justify locking children in small cages and permanently separating them from their families. Should we DNA test every child to make sure their parents aren't lying? I'm guessing you are only ok with that because they aren't white.
Trump has made no effort to do anything about the issue of abortion. So that is bullshit.
He has done nothing about "biblical marriage" and has remarried like 3 times. He obviously doesn't care.
He gave a massive, permanent tax cut to the rich. A small, temporary tax cut for other people. Go check, the tax changes for poor people expire in a few years. They were tacked on at the end to sell it as if trump gives a shit about poor people. The cuts for the rich were the entire point.
What criminal justice reform? Please be specific.
@historybuff For your first accusation I will say that we voted for a president, not a pastor. The Bible actually does allow for divorce (even though there are rules for what you can divorce for).
For your second accusation though the kids are put in detention areas they are not treated inhumanly and it is better to have them there instead of being alone fending for themselves. As far as separating them from their families, how do you know it is their family and they are not just being used and abused to get into the US. That is why DNA tests should be done so we can be sure these are really their parents.
Trump is though protecting the rights of babies who are still in the womb, he is supporting those who believe in biblical marriage and he is compassionate with the poor by giving tax cuts. Also he is working on criminal justice reform allowing many criminals who were given unfair sentences and allowing them to return to their families.
Because they are massive hypocrites. For example, catholics don't believe in divorced and getting remarried. Trump has done this multiple times. But catholic groups just ignore it.
Christians are supposed to be all about charity and taking care of people. Christ supposedly taught that what you do to the weakest of people you are doing to him. Trump locks children in cages and permanently separated them from their parents. There are children that will never see their parents again because of what trump has done. But christian fundamentalists just sort of look the other way.
Trump has done lots of things that are fundamentally opposed to the supposed values of Christianity. He very obviously has not read the bible. But religious groups continue to bow at his feet.
furthermore, only american christians were involved in the trump presidency (and again not all of them)
i agree with your sentiment, but rather then painting a broad brush, you could say "American Evangelicals / Christian Republicans can no longer take the moral high ground".
there are many non selfish Christians, like all the churches that openly welcomed and encouraged refugees to come to their communities.
its the christians in the mid west deep red bible belt states that embarassed and betrayed themselves.