The debate "All the abortion clinics should be abandoned" was started by
July 27, 2020, 11:26 pm.
16 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 34 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
Clint1234 posted 47 arguments to the agreers part.
Cdawgthree posted 9 arguments, Nemiroff posted 6 arguments, ototoxic posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
safalcon7, Proking and 14 visitors agree.
diecinueve, Cdawgthree, Nemiroff, ototoxic and 30 visitors disagree.
if you are speaking to someone who believes abortion is child murder, what does the crime or the father have anything to do with the killing of the child?
although if the mothers life is in danger, a different principle comes into play. is a parent mandated to lose their life for the life of an already born child? do you have to by law, take a bullet for a child? i don't believe so. we cannot neglect or abandon children, but we dont have to die for them. i dont see how this would change for the mother of an unborn child.
What about abortion for rape victims? Or women who's pregnancy is a danger to their life?
So everyone, including the Bible, is wrong... and you are right?? That's literally what you're telling me right now? Okay... ok, I get it. You're just wasting time. You've been wrong in every single point thus far (and I've given evidence on all accounts) so I guess I'll just stop talking to you if you continue to respond with nothing.
Interesting that you consider your attitude to be "good" when, so far, you've displayed nothing but a nihilistic, black-and-white, and dogmatic worldview. Ironic that you claim to be a child of God when thus far you've shown a mindset displaying nothing but the inverse.
Foster homes literally create a larger market for even more abortions... I can't see how you're not putting 2 and 2 together here... But sure, Ill proudly say that I value living beings over insentient living organisms any day. Any sane person who worships the soul rather than flesh and blood would.
Yes, I believe in God. God is an undeniable truth. You are taking his truth and twisting it into your own perverse idolization of flesh over the soul... and all because of politics!
Your life is your own, so your goals are not mine to judge, but I can say with certainty that faith in an afterlife is another nihilistic standpoint. Value and blessedness come from within the soul, not from after life or some "perfect" set of conditions.
No, I do not limit myself to political dichotomies like those with black and white mob mentality. You are ignoring the bigger picture on all accounts... God said to worship no other Gods besides him, but here you are placing the agenda of the red elephant above the word of God! Lol
If you believe everything those dam Democrats say, then you won't get no where.
Why you believe in abortion is because you are a Democrat and Democrat believe in alot of stupid stuff like abortion. You see trump already abandoned 2 states from abortion.
I don't know what I do best but I will tell you what my goal is. My goal is to have a good attitude, be with my family for the rest of my life, experience things in life, help others that need help and work my way to heaven.
Your telling me Ignoring is what I do best, well I ask you if you believe in God and you ignored that. So I take it that you don't believe in God.
Like I said God is bigger than anything and your telling me that I think I'm smarter than God.
So your saying foster children is killing people but abortion ain't, Well they both are in my opinion but what your doing is your favoring foster children.
Believing in killing babies is what you do best and it's wrong. What I call a good person is someone with a good attitude.
"Most foster kids will become good people" lmao, so your idea of a good person is no job, no house, drug addiction, criminal record, and teenage pregnancy? Or did you just ignore the statistics I showed you?
Of course you ignored them; it's what you do best.
"It is killing people and you should be smart enough to know that."
Science doesn't agree that it's killing a person.
Philosophy doesn't agree that it's killing a person.
The Bible doesn't agree that it's killing a person.
Society doesn't agree that it's killing a person.
The literal DEFINITION of the words do not agree that it's killing a person.
Yet, I suppose that you think you're smarter than God himself...
I respect the people that fight for our country but I don't think I could kill a person from any country. People can call me a coward but I just can't kill no one.
Killing ain't wrong because the law saids it is, it wrong because it taking people's life and no one deserves that. Like back then you killed someone then you were right away hang but I don't agree with. If you murder some one coldblooded, I think they should go prison for life.
So you believe in God right?
Who ever has the heart to kill a baby is a mean person, if baby can live it should be able to grow and live his or her life.
he has, when he commanded abraham to sacrifice his son. he ultimately stopped him, but the correct answer was to kill on command, not to stand up for values.
so the problem isnt killing, its simply gods word. and if another person believes in a different god with different words? how will you decide laws? with war?
i would prefer arguments made from reason, not blind authority.
no, the president or government do not define morality for me. although if i was in the military, then yes, possibly.
are you trying to equate presidents to god? no presidents do not decide my morality.
If the president or the government saids you can kill, would you. I wouldn't
He don't work mysterious ways, he works in the right way. He wouldn't do that because God is perfect and that would be a mistake.
Nothing is above God, God is bigger than anything.
Well I guess if God does say it is ok, then yea it would probably be ok but He wouldn't say that, he never did and never will.
I didn't say the only reason it's bad is because God said so, I said it bad because it is taking some ones life away. That is called murder.
why would it make god sound bad? didnt you say the only reason killing is bad is because god said so? if god changed his mind, then there is nothing wrong with killing!
if god says its ok, then its ok...
unless killing is bad for other mundane reasons like the suffering it causes regardless of what god says. in which case morality is above god and god is simply enforcing right from wrong, not dictating it.
besides, how can you say god wouldn't do that when we all know "he works in mysterious ways and you shouldnt question him". he might do anything!
You say abortion is not killing a baby cause it a fetus but abortion is a far more serious issue. The baby is a he or she being in God eyes so it is murder and it wrong.
Yes most of the foster home kids will become good people, that why they should not have to be unwanted like the babies in the abortion clinics. I did not make a mistake about saying abortion is killing people. It is killing people and you should be smart enough to know that. God don't agree with people killing people, well people killing babies are the same thing
No he wouldn't say we can kill people now, your making God sound worse than he his. Tell me this if the president or the government would say we can kill people, would you. I wouldn't because God was the one who said killing is wrong way before the president or the government.
A fetus is not a baby. Please refrain from making that mistake again.
Yes, foster homes are where unwanted babies go. Do you want statistics to prove that they will not likely become good people?
If you're just going to ignore the old testament then do you want to give me a new testament quote that overrides this one? Why include the old testament if it's not valid. Why not burn half of the Bible?
but if tomorrow god announces that killing is now good, it will be ok to kill?
A baby is a person and you can't tell me I don't believe in God when I pray every morning and every night.
Yes it is in the word of God, but your probably reading the old testament not the new
That in foster homes, These are babies that have mother and father that don't want them.
I not saying the bible is wrong, your putting that in my mouth.
God is our king and if it wasn't for him we would not be here on this world.
So... you think the Bible is wrong then?
You can't take away something that doesn't exist yet. Also, Good people? Lmao half the kids in foster homes get addicted to drugs, develop PTSD, commit crimes, and have sex with strangers. Want the statistics?
I said "he" as in God. The Bible is the word of God, is it not?
And no, I do not "believe in killing people." A fetus isn't a person. I believe in God. You, apparently, do not.
You believe in abortion so you believe in killing people
And Abortion ain't certainly right cause you said so
And yes killing is wrong cause God said so
God never said it is ok
so murder is only wrong because god says so, and if god says its ok to kill, then killing becomes good?
thats how crusades happen.
You mean God cause God didn't write the bible
You said he? who
Most of those babies that they killed would have grown up to be good people but instead their lifes get taken away from them.
Well he clearly says here that fetuses spawned from a man who is not her husband must die... That's abortion.
God made those babies and it is up to him when and how he wants that baby to die.
Literally a quote saying that unfaithful mothers must abort:
Numbers 5:27-28 "If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell, and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children." This passage literally forbids the birth of illegitimate children and tells women to miscarry if they carry another mans fetus.
That is not the bible
Well it's not... Even your Bible says so.
Even the literal definition of "baby" involves a being who is both already born and posseses a mind of its own.
Why do you insist on being ignorant?
Abortion is killing people, God don't support killing people.
How would know if I don't care about if the world burns, last I heard you don't even care about the babies getting killed everyday in the abortion clinics. You believe in abortion and when the world ends, what are you gonna tell god. Are you gonna tell him that it is not killing people, because it is.
Well abortion isn't killing a baby... So...
Also, even the Bible supports abortion. Didn't you read the verse I sent you?
The consequences is they should be going to prison for killing a baby. Just like they go to prison for killing a person.
I not talking about whatever you guys are talking about, I'm talking about people killing babies in the abortion clinics coldblooded. The babies that god made and will grow up to be a woman or a man but no they can't cause their life gets taking away. Abortion is wrong, it's killing people.
he should, but nobody will force him. meanwhile the woman is facing abandonment or murder charges if she doesnt... totally fair (sarcasm).
Who even has the heart to think that enforcing their biased, dystopian, and idealistic asceticism is more important than the well-being of others?
You do not care for the consequences. You do not care if the world burns... as long as everyone follows your ruleset...
Either way abortion is murder. Who even has the heart to kill a baby.
He made a mistake and so did she, so they should both take care of the baby.
Well I don't know what they do with that kind of stuff, but the father should help take care of the baby. If he don't, then he a mean father I guess.
ok, its both their fault, but will there be any legal requirements of the man? or can he just walk away and have sex without consequences?
so it is both of theirs fault they had sex
Well it not just the womans baby, it's the man's two.
another question is that of responsibility. true, women can choose to not have sex, but what about men? they also chose to have sex, and brought that child into this world. do we not have to legislate shared responsibility? or will this moral judgement be levied only on women?
1. child is usually defined as "newly born". a newborn is considered 1 day old, not 9 months old.
2. neither me nor cdawg stated they should be killed. as Cdawg said: "you have up pave the road before you drive it." he never said just dont drive.
3. do you not care about the poor outcomes of our foster system now? do you think it will be better if they are flooded with more children without any contingencies or plans? do you only care for the unborn?
Murder of United States citizens is illegal because the purpose of the United States Government is to protect the freedom of the beings under its rule. An organism that has no will has no rights because freedom only pertains to the will of an individual.
Assuming that a living being without possession of a will is more important than the well-being of others can only come from the result of an idealistic philosophy that places some dystopian world above the moral value of an individual.
Do you not understand that banning abortion will cause more abortions? If you truely value human life then you shouldn't be advocating for an idealistic system that can only work in your imagination. You should be advocating, instead, for conditions that will not enable and encourage abortion. You have to pave the road before you drive on it. Otherwise, you're just driving yourself into a ditch
Tell me this, If you murder a man or woman then you go to prison, But then people murder babies everyday in the abortion clinics and get away free.
If you can't afford taking care of a child, then that doesn't mean you have to kill it.
Even if they became pregnant before the age of 21, they still shouldn't kill their own baby. How evil can they get.
20% of foster children who age out will become immediately homeless. 50% are unemployed by age 24. Less than 3% earn a degree. 25% have PTSD from foster home abuse. 60% are convicted of crimes. 50% struggle with drug abuse. 70% (of girls, obviously) become impregnated before the age of 21. (Source: adoption.com)
Foster homes create more abortions.
You are like those people who want to print more money and give everyone a million dollars without considering inflation.
You are like those people who want to take our guns and freedom of speech without considering the consequences.
If you had an ounce of empathy for man kind, you wouldn't dare suggest this ridiculous idea. Let me ask you, have you ever been through the system? I have. I have PTSD. I was homeless. I saw first hand the abuse dealt by the people who are supposed to care for and raise the forgotten youth of this society. Do I hate my life? No. Struggle is no reason to devalue the gift of God. However, even I can say with certainty that your insane ideology will do nothing more than pour gasoline on an already raging fire. What you are proposing is madness and will only increase misery by a thousand fold.
...and for what?
To support your religious asceticism? Your dystopian idealism? Your false conviction that a zygote is somehow moral with a mind and feelings of its own?
You are no better than the conceited egoists who would rather see the world burn than their ideology fail.
We may not agree on epistemology, but at least you have a brain when it comes to this
i wonder what effect banning abortion will have on our foster system. it is already underfunded and has very poor outcomes, what will happen if a tidal wave of new unwanted children are dumped on it?
either moms need extra support like gov funded childcare, or orphanages need extra finances. if we do not, we will have a humanitarian crisis on our hands.
If you think killing a baby is gonna get you to heaven, you better think again.
Abortion is wrong, if you kill a person then it is murder, but if you kill a baby then it ain't. Abortion should be abandoned. A baby should not have to be killed, cause the parent or parents don't want them.