The debate "America is a Hypocrite itself." was started by
April 29, 2016, 3:48 am.
19 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 11 people are on the disagree side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
QueenQuirks posted 2 arguments, danielle posted 2 arguments, historybuff posted 12 arguments, RyanWakefield posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
TZW posted 27 arguments, Nemiroff posted 1 argument, historybuff posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
QueenQuirks, sagitario, tr, danielle, PoetPrincess85, RyanWakefield, joy25joy and 12 visitors agree.
TZW, Nemiroff, bigB, ProudAmerican888, oscar90000, historybuff, Dev and 4 visitors disagree.
lol what a rediculous question. so because a democracy exists you think that is somehow an argument for America doing something good? you fought against that democracy. you killed millions trying to prevent that democracy from existing. you cannot take credit for something you had nothing to do with.
so to answer your question. yes there is a democracy there, in spite of America's best efforts at creating a dictatorship.
Just yes or no, no need for explanation.
how are you not answering my question? Did democracy persist in Vietnam till this da Simple question buff, yes or no.
a democracy you fought against. In this story you are the evil tyrants and the communists fought for freedom. how are you not getting this?
but it was still democracy
yes. and it was the Communist regime that did that. the Americans backed the military dictators the communists defeated. you fought against the people who brought in democracy. you fought for the corrupt dictators.
democracy came into effect that's what I'm saying
what are you talking about? the south lost. they got over run. Saigon fell. the Capitol is Hanoi, in the North. what do you think happened?
The south won though so?
the north was never overthrown. they defeated you. they eventually reformed into what they are today despite America. you were the side pushing for tyranny. they fought for freedom and you killed millions of them for it.
the insurgent forces fought America which supported an opposite regime is the people we fought (north Vietnam and the Chinese). America by no means was perfect in the war and we learned a lot from the war. Yet, the North was overthrown
and you lost the Vietnam war. you had absolutely nothing to do with their success. you propped up a corrupt military regime. the people of Vietnam threw you out on your asses and established their own democracy. you can't take credit for that. you fought against that. you fought for military tyranny.
Who succeeded? democracy? that's what we were sent in to establish in Vietnam. It was a morale war that people didn't like because they were drug addict hippies that wanted hand outs. My uncle was a tunnel rat and a chemical specialist in Vietnam. He loved it despite the recognition he recieved. America learned a lot from that war and the liberation of Afghanistan in 2001.
that's because you had nothing to do with the recovery of Western Europe other than writing a cheque.
and you bombed Vietnam flat for years. they only recovered when they won the war against you. you could easy describe it as they have succeeded despite your strong attempts to prevent it.
What we should look at is the countries where we failed in i.e Afghanistan when Russia invaded, nK, Cuba, Iraq. In western Europe though, we had great success to include the pacific. When it panned out for us how we planned it was great, when it didn't it was really bad.
Look at Italy too, look at Vietnam (despite their outcome came after we left) all I am saying is we have done wrong and bad, forgive and forget.
in being imperialists? yeah they have surpassed Germany.
Look at Germany, the US surpassed what that country did pre world war 2.
look at Guatamala. they elected a government. the CIA overthrew him and ensured that had brutal dictator after brutal dictator until hundreds of thousands of people had to die to free themselves of American backed tyranny.
Look at South Korea. America set that up. it's a great country to go to.
you find it funny that people want help when they're dying but don't want America to overthrow their government and install a dictator?
the difference is one is helping, and the other is tyrannical and authoritarian. I really don't understand the confusion.
This is something I've brought up before, but I find it funny that American involvement in other countries gets it called Authoritarian and tyrannical, but when foreign countries are in trouble by natural disasters or otherwise it is expected that America provides aid. It's like other countries expect America to be a caretaker and lead by example.
Also, situations cited past and present are much more complicated, and can't be summed up by 'because America'.
Buff, if the American system is so flawed, how do we select a leader if the world is at peace. For example all of the nations come together as one.
America attempts to combat authoritarian bigotry with authoritarian bigotry.
I just hate the way America thinks it's bigger and better than everyone else. it's kind of like a playground bully!
what are you talking about?
hey buff, if the world calls for peace how is the leader selected?
does patriotism mean ignoring mass murder? ignoring the fact that the American government has spread tyranny across the planet in the name of democracy? you can love your country and still object to the things they do.
nemiroff Americans are fighters we love a winner and always support them.
We are champions have some patriotism.
also, wouldn't we be hypocritical if we were being all oppressive while telling OTHER nations to be peaceful?
I think we are really hoping to spread peace, but doing it in a 3 stooges kinda way.
that's not hypocrisy, that's failure.
no one is claiming that other countries are perfect. but other countries don't claim to be the champions of democracy and freedom that America does. they are not as hypocritical because they don't claim to be heroes and committing horrible crimes.
take that in its not just America that does it
Governments lie all the time. Well not just the American government, it's just, in the naturer of governments. Well they have to lie. And since they all represent the people, in some sense they act against the interest of the people, the only way they can hold power, is if they lie to the people. -Howard Zinn.
America does have freedom and liberty though. Not going to lie there hasn't been corruption and wrong doings along the way. However, I think other countries are bigger hypocrites then the US.
I agree with this I think. I do think that America likes to think it's self as this amazing powerful country that prides itself of freedom and liberty. when actually it's probably one of the most corrupt countries out there...
Avatar is a great metaphor of America
Talk about the past and see if you can shape it, talk of the future and see if you can shape it as well.
Because he is welcome to leave.
then why are you telling someone to leave for talking about some of those mistakes. Noone was making comparisons to any other countries at any point during this thread.
and @history buff
I wouldn't call those mistakes hypocrisy. There has been much debate and outcry about those actions after they were revealed. those who made the decisions and those who support them did it for national security, and even if they regret the outcome, the do not regret the intent of protecting the nation at any cost.
Those against it were always against it, and most did not know about it.
you can interpret that as a hypocritical nation, but in reality it is what happens in a free nation where people are allowed to speak their minds and hold different opinions. What you see as hypocrisy, I see as our greatest quality.
I think you would be very hard pressed to find a country that has caused more problems than America in the last few decades. the number of governments they have overthrown, tyrannical dictator's they have supported, and countries they have bombed. I don't think any other country comes close. they are probably responsible for more deaths than any other country since China's great leap forward.
I also never said they were all bad. that would be rediculous. no one is all bad. but trying to gloss over millions and millions of dead people and millions more forced to live under tyranny because of America does not help anyone.
I'm not pretending they didn't happen; however, what I am saying is that what we have done is just a spec on a graph compared to some other countries.
can you quote me saying America has done nothing but bad?
maybe you should stop being presumptuous and we can actually move forward with the discussion.
this is the greatest country in the world, but it does have flaws and it has made mistakes. pretending they never happened will not make the country stronger.
Use critical thinking, if you use that you can actually use it in this debate about how the US decided to use their courses of action throughout history. You'll also know that they have condemned many of their wrong doing but to simply say the US is nothing but bad after bad you'll see they have done better then the majority of other nations and countries.
your asking if I said something when you can just scroll down to see that I never did.
please, try to stay on topic, we aren't making a comparison here, and I have been defending America since the beginning. sorry if I don't practice blind denial lol.
how can I use common sense when you aren't even making sense?!?
use some common sense here kid.
did I ever say that?
was anyone here drawing a comparison to any other country?
Are you saying no country has ever done wrong?
are you suggesting that the only way to be a proud American is to bury your head in the sand and ignore history?
if so buff, you're more then welcome to leave. Go to a country that hasn't done ill to others... if you can find one.
Do you live in america?
just because someone is not perfect does not mean they cannot point out the crimes of others. the fact that they thought these terrible crimes were the right thing does not make it better. it just means they can justify horrible things.
We did what we thought was right in the moment. Many of you are hypocritical, so who are you to judge?
how about their actions during the cold war? they toppled democratically elected governments because they weren't American puppets. they bombed countries flat for no reason other than that they were next to a country they were fighting in. they propped up military dictators who murdered and tortured their people. all while telling everyone who would listen that they are heros democracy and justice. they are absolutely hypocrites.
That's a bit of an unfair statement. To start, things that happened hundreds of years ago is in the past, it would be like saying Germany is a genocidal country. About natives, all countries have had natives before them, the point being that the countries that exist today weren't the natives the borders have been drawn over multiple times. Also, the natives did not claim land, refused to follow boundaries set by the colonists, and if we want to talk about the trail of tears Andrew Jackson didn't have any power to do that but he overstepped his bounds, the courts ruled against him but he did it anyway! Disease killed many of the native Americans too, and they have little technology to trade or use.
you are conflicting the actions of 200 years ago with the ideals of today.
the people who stole the land from the Indians were massive isolationists and expressed no desire to police the world or spread the torch of democracy.
How they fight for freedom. The whole symbol of america is freedom and they try to help people. Even that song this land is my land. The whole thing is hypocritical when they basically stole the land. Raped, Murdered, etc all of natives and stole there land...like wth.
How is America a hypocrite? I do not see it. Please inform me.