The debate "America will never recover after Trump" was started by
April 29, 2018, 2:51 pm.
By the way, openthinker504 is disagreeing with this statement.
21 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 49 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
Nemiroff posted 5 arguments, MrShine posted 1 argument, Marcon posted 3 arguments to the disagreers part.
tylathecat, nivasprashanth and 19 visitors agree.
openthinker504, neveralone, MrShine, Nemiroff, theoneandonlyDan, Najam1, LiberalsAversion, Marcon, Matthew354, crusader, chickboy1776, Simonderp, Aryaman999, Andrewchaney69420 and 35 visitors disagree.
I agree some of the things on the list are less egregious and obvious then others. but are you really going to discount the whole list because you searched for the weakest point and forgot the rest?
there has been alot of twisting of intentions around his campaign rhetoric, but his earlier statements like in renting to black people... it was pretty explicit and unquestionable.
or do you disagree?
how so? he said and did all those things. I would argue most of those things are racist. what is there to distort?
This is heavily distorted.
here's a list.
Explain how Trump is a racist.
of course my comments aren't about policy. trump doesn't have any coherent policies. he stumbles from one train wreck to the next.
and I was referring to how the rest of the world perceives America. the only people outside of the US that sees it as a leader are xenophobes, racists, or dictators. I wasn't referring to the people who voted for him. I am aware that many of them are not racists. but they did vote for a racist...
there will always be issues of all sizes before and after any individual, but that doesnt mean the individual didnt create or embody issues of significance.
the existence of external issues does not negate the issues at hand, like his self serving at our expense. before the media shamed him for caving to china, he seemed satisfied with the china company that committed intellectual theft being forgiven and his daughter getting several approvals from china. china wins, trumps win, america loses as the theft issue is forgotten. MAGA!
of course after the shaming trump goes complete opposite and surprises them with sanctions talk which is not good either and further shows that Americas word = shit.
That sounds like an overreaction of changes that you believe are happening in pur minds, not really with policy. Like faith, perceptions, etc.
Ypu also have to realize a lot of laymen that voted for trump are not racists. They view him as a leader, and might be less informed than you, but they are not sitting around thinking about how they hate black people. That's an arbitrary value judgment to make YOU feel better.
In terms of fiscal policies Trump isnt even much different than the last administration...
I think he's already changed substantial things. he is undermining American values. he's destroying the people's faith in the justice system, the government, America's allies, the list goes on.
He is damaging America's position as a world leader. America still has the biggest economy and all, but other than racists and xenophobes, I don't think anyone else considers them a leader any more. when China is more respected for their environmental views than you, that should be a very bad sign.
now these things may recover after Trump, but given that a large portion of the country still thinks he's doing a good job as he rips the country apart, I don't think so.
I think there are bigger issues beyond Trump that exosted before and will still exist after his presidency. In retrospect he won't change anything substancial.
it focuses on trump.
trump =/= Republicans.
unlike much of right wing media which does regular character assassinations against each and every prominent Democrat that comes up.
and is the focus invalid? where should it focus?
It only focuses on the worst and the loudest for the Republicans. Some liberals it hates, but otherwise it's generally focused on the Right.
you know how the media tends to focus on the worst and loudest? i believe that is why you see the extreme right is growing. every special election since has tipped so much more left that die hard conservative areas won by previously unheard of small margins. even not counting the pediphile rapist.
of course noone can know for sure at this point, but it feels like trump is just down to his small, vocal base. even the Republican leadership is getting disgusted by the direction. even his base is being divided by some of his more moderate failed attempts.
While I do agree that mismanaged globalism is one of the driving factors, I disagree that racism is the driving factor or the result. America needs to be mindful of it's immigration policies, which is not racist. Other countries, Mexico for example have stricter immigration policies. An immigrant from Mexico can be white, black, and Asian if you look at small communities in Colombia... they all need to legally immigrate, become Americans.
And the polarization relies on a condensing niche on the left, making most things right of center alt. right. We can observe major news outlets that report on alt right figures have more moderate stances than reported. Though, I will admit that the next generation is polling more Republican than it has for awhile. It isn't a uptick or push against moderate policies or American values, it's left leaning policies that are being rolled back.
And what does the UN do? Weak sanctions disagreement, forcing alliances that have no good will while never quite exerting full power. Genocides ignored Armenian and Rwanda, Peace worker paedophile rings, immigration decided by countries that will not take refugees themselves, and exorbitant green projects that encourages industrial age production. Mismanagement is putting it lightly. It's like a Potter telling a blacksmith how to do his job and using his budget to buy clay!
America has been at the forefront of development. English is the lingua Franca of trade, despite only being 13% native speakers, America has the largest hold of independent patents in small businesses, America is clearly doing something right if we are a super power that directly affects even China's economy. Heading towards the rest of the world is a step backwards.
I very much hope you are right. but it seems like both sides are only getting more polarized. the right is getting further right. the left is getting closer to rest of the developed world, which for some reason the Republicans see as a bad thing.
any remenants of bipartisanship seem to be dead and buried. neither side will allow the other to do something good to try to prevent them from getting a win. party comes before the public good.
sorry, america is anything but falling apart. if anything it has shown that it's systems are stronger than any 1 man, including trump.
the extreme right wing is not an american problem, it is a world wide reaction to mismanaged globalism. this mostly takes the form of immigration xenophobia, and in the case of the USA, there needs to be special consideration, because as much as I support family reunification, the us is the only nation that uses it for a large chunk of its immigration with Canada being a huge user of merit based immigration (exactly what trump is pushing for btw)
also considering how trump is getting pushback from even the right and a predicted blue wave going they even the most red states shows that rather than a reverse course, this is just a step back before a dash forward. my prediction is that in the long term, trump is the best thing to happen to happen to the US, as hillary would have kept up the same snails pace forward as Obama, only fueling the alt right instead of exposing the cancer as the ineffective bullshit it is (as trump beautifully did).
I think America is changing. trump is as much a symptom of those changes as he is a cause of them. people like bannon, info wars and Fox news have been pushing a culture war. and they have successfully undermined America's institutions and principals. people have stopped believing in their government, the media, the rule of law.
America is falling apart. I don't see any evidence that trend will do anything but get worse.