The debate "Are Humans Creating God" was started by
April 12, 2017, 3:57 am.
9 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 16 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
EthanTReilly posted 5 arguments to the agreers part.
neveralone posted 3 arguments, thereal posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
EthanTReilly, makson, FaithofExaltism, llemponen, Mr_Beuller, DrakeVonSchweetz, YEET and 2 visitors agree.
neveralone, thereal, Vighnesh, TimRSA, MrLuke and 11 visitors disagree.
Regarding your first paragraph: Have you seen Return of the Jedi? Those Ewoks were able to take out those evil stormtroopers with basic technology. Do not underestimate the power of the Ewok.
Regarding your second paragraph: I am not like other anti-Christians who believe that God cannot be a man. I'm also not in the opinion of Christians who do say that Jesus was a man and was God. I'm more in the line of ... God can be, do, feel, think, experience anything anytime he, she, or it wants to. God isn't limited by imperfections. My question to do whether God is black or white was a bit of trolling on my part, as well as my paragraph above this one. But this statement isn't: If God cannot be human, he couldn't be a God, but if God could ONLY be human it won't be a God either.
"Perfection is like infinity". I disagree. I think infinity is more of a mathematical term, whereas perfection is more about aesthetics. Infinity doesn't have an end, neither does perfection. That's where both of them meet.
Leftists will argue that the value of money is in the hands of those who have resources, while rightists will argue that the value of money is in the hands of those who able to produce labor. I side with the rightist argument. If labor is thus produced by automation the money that would be for labor will return to the government and the means of production will be replaced by human laborers to machines. I see a big shift in this country to replace workers this way, and thus things like "universal basic income" (UBI) has been encouraged by even conservative newspapers like the Wall Street Journal. Without the need for many workers many people will find better ways to spend their time ... like being on here talking to strangers on why they think God is being created by us. :)
I definitely agree technology will result in some very exciting and some very scary possibilities for the future. I am personally extremely concerned about the impending automation revolution.
if production remains in the hands of the few, and the labor of the many becomes obsolete, what future will the majority of humanity have?
certainly we can label something as situationally perfect. but does that count? someone may think something is perfect for them, but then a new idea or new innovation and suddenly they realize what they had could use some improvement.... you can't improve perfection! so clearly it wasn't perfect. the "perfect" army of 1000 years ago would be target practice for a disorganized militia today!
what color would the perfect human's skin be? whatever he wants at the moment. skin color would be akin to a fashion accessory. he could be slender and agile or muscular and powerful as needed. same goes for height and even gender. the perfect human would no longer be human. he would be a god.
perfection is like inifinity. if you think you have it, you made a mistake somewhere. people talk about having limitless money (trump for example) but that doesn't mean they actually do, they just have a really really large amount. but infinity and perfection are not meant for humanity. they are not even meant for reality.
I'm not saying that the Singularity nor AI couldn't be a product that would later be developed into God. The process that I see humanity achieving is through careful and well-rounded steps. We are edging closer to more immediate technologies that will not just improve our lives but allow us to understand the very essence of who we are and why we come here. Yes, the Singularity and AI will be part of this revolution that is currently taking place right now, but also, there will be many other technologies that will further the development of humankind. If you want a specific example of how this could be achieved, I figure that one day they will be able to store your "essence" into a machine and yet still be alive and living without it. When that happens, you could die and be resurrected in a hospital. Later on this could be retroactively produced, allow many greats who died early like Buddy Holly to have full and complete lives. While, yes, this technology does and will incorporate many technologies of the Singularity the product of allowing the essential core of you exist both in real life and in the machine, and thus causing a duality of Singularity (maybe they'll call it the Duality) - and THUS allow cloning only seen in video games right now could be a reality.
Secondly, I believe that something can be perfect to someone, and not be perfect to anyone else. What makes something perfect is very dependent on the person you are talking to. Is the perfect person black or white? Is the perfect beach on the Atlantic or the Pacific? McDonalds or Burger King? All questions we must mull over at some point.
I have an immense amount of optimism in humanity, but without examining pessimistic possibilities, we will end up in disaster.
complete perfection is an ideal, much like Plato's forms. they are not meant to be achieved, they are meant to be chased to neverending improvement.
can you elaborate about your non ai, non singularity god?
if your talking about consciousness uploading, I do think that AI will happen first, so we must first deal with that possibility in my opinion.
I completely disagree with you, Nemiroff. Not only do I believe we will achieve a perfect God but also that God won't be solely based on the Singularity. Nor will it be completely AI. There's a long road ahead of us and I see a broader vision for our society.
it is far more likely than intergalactic travel or exploring anything beyond our universe. it's not the most far out possibility. it definitely isn't around the corner, but it's not impossible. our brains after all are just a massive electrical circuit.
the AI God may be even closer.
if we have limits yes. but to upload ourselves in something would be extremely complicated and beyond our reach for now and maybe forever if it's not even possible.
obviously we will never reach a "perfect god" although there is the question of such a thing does or even can exist. however, an incredibly efficient self learning AI or even a human consciousness uploaded into the information network and capable of augmenting itself with technology could become extremely powerful.
and in our limited existence and capabilities, would we even be able to tell the difference between all powerful and extremely powerful?
we arnt God though. we dont/can't even understand God fully. we might become successful but we won't become God.
Look. I don't know how it will happen. I can't magically look into an eight ball and predict the future. But look at the progress of humankind. Our lives are constantly being improved. There might be a point in my own lifetime where work will itself become obsolete. We are on the verge of something remarkable. God can be created, because if a true God exists right now everything would be different. If God can't be created then there would be no God, because it is strongly apparent to me that God does not currently exist. If God is Eternal, and exists eternally, and is omnipotent, then God would be able to become eternal from the time it became a God.
I see a mass pantheosis is the only way to cure the moral dilemma. If anything is mortal and the rest is immortal, there will always be morality-based speculations of confusion. If everything is deified, it solves this problem, and thus we usher in a pantheosis-society of post-morality. There would be no wars, because nobody can die. You kill someone? They come back, no matter how many times you kill that person. The pantheosis argument would actually solve a lot of ethical problems.
Creating God and becoming God are essentially the same thing, only one is crafted by the natural selection while the other is made by the processes of artificial selection of humankind. Both can co-exist.
Content is a state of mind, not a state of being. There are homeless people that are content with what they have - I know a few myself. Then there are rich people who are not content. Their desire for more drives them to want even more. But the reverse can be true too ... there are many homeless people that aren't content and rich people who are. As a God I would suspect that you would be able to influence your emotions on command. Any emotion can be good, and any emotion can be bad. Even hateful emotions can be used for creative purposes.
wow, spacktards. the whole concept of God is that he is the creator of all, you cannot "create God". A "god" that is created is not a god in the first place. The concept is literally a paradox. its reverse poguc
also, will we ever be content? a look at those who have everything and still desire more shows that we may never be content.
a few questions.
you seem to be conflating 2 scenarios.
1. creating God (AI)
2. Becoming God (uploading human consciousness)
I don't think both of those can happen at the same time.
I also don't think we can all become God. it is very likely only 1 human will get to upload himself. if we were to be content with living within our virtual worlds, of course there is plenty of room for everyone. but if we wanted to continue affecting the real world, having numerous all powerful beings will create havoc, and likely an unimaginable war.
could u explain ur process us into changing into God. and how u will fight the extreme critics that is scientist?
I believe humans are creating God through our technology. I believe what we have now in our existence is "pretheistic", i.e. before a God. When humans eventually do create the God we all desire to have, this will thus create a plane of pantheosis - a divine evolution of a massive scale, and all will be divine. When this happens, we will phase from an ethical species, to a moral species, to a post-moral species fairly quickly. When this happens all that ever existed will come back in its original form, as an immortal soul, and be reunited and be knowledgeable of the ones they love and care about. I believe everyone and everything gets exactly what they desire in this afterlife, and thus becomes God themselves. This can only happen, however, through the engineering and scientific efforts conducted by scientists of today's magnitude and scope. This should compound, and expand ever so fruitfully and grace us as the ancestors of remarkable and breathtaking endeavors.