The debate "Being gay is a choice." was started by
April 25, 2015, 5:03 pm.
By the way, PsychDave is disagreeing with this statement.
128 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 176 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
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Well the thing is that people who agree with this believe that people are born heterosexual. I think that was stated a while back. I actually did a YouTube video on this a few months ago. The problem is that there is no evidence for this.
I could absolutely believe that, before his libido manifests, a male member of the species could simply be physically attracted to a female member of the species and later find out he's homosexual. This would make sense to me because that is the only way the species can naturally procreate. However, I don't think this boy chose to be homosexual later on in life, after previously being heterosexual by default. I think it was simply his body doing what it feels it needs to do to procreate. I'm thinking that sexual and romantic orientation is cultivated by one's mind and becomes part of the foundation of who they are but the body is still kind of geared towards procreation. I don't know - I could be wrong. It still seems reasonable to me.
The reason I bring this up is because this is the only logical reason I can think of that would lead someone to believe that any sexual orientation other than heterosexuality is a choice: the procreation argument.
Peypey, when did you choose? I can honestly say that for me it was not a choice. I have never been attracted to other guys, so I could not have chosen to be gay. I have never talked to someone who had made a conscious choice to be gay (or not to be) so I'm curious about it.
I feel that you are born with a preference towards males or females. I don't think that you choose. If you did, I doubt that gay rights would be a hot issue.
if being gay is a choice, then there should have a choice of being straight.
if there are gay couples walking on the street, they are telling you that they choose to be gay haha.
I don't really know, but I think it's a choice or at least it was for me. Everyone is different though you know so I guess it just comes down to what you (yourself) think(s).
This might be the.dumbest thingn I've read.
And who really cares
There is not a shred of evidence that says being gay is a choice. Nobody chooses to be gay. They finally just choose to tell you they're gay. People don't wake up one day and decide to be gay
i think feeling gay is not a choice but living as one is.
people are created staight, and choose to stay that way, or choose to be gay.
people choose to be straight?
Why then can scientists in a lab with all their technology not make life, if life was created by chemical reactions.
Have you heard of chemical reactions? That, thousands of stars and debris and the addition of anti matter is A THEORY of how we got here. It might not be correct, but it's supported. There is still no evidence or logic in a deity poofing out of nowhere then making everything after that.
That is stupid. we have watched evolution work. we know that life evolves. saying you need things be designed to exist is simply rediculous. nature is a beautiful thing. it doesn't need a magician to make the world work.
Do u know how complicated a single-celled organism is? This could not have been created by accident. It needs a intelligent designer.
because your proofs as you call them, is nothing but religious dogma. There's no evidence in any of them.
Some Christians do have blind faith, I do not, i am well educated in the Catholic doctrines and am constantly learning more. Blind faith would be someone saying "God is real" and nothing else. I have told you many times the other proofs of God that you dismiss without thought.
No. logic isn't needed for religion. blind submission to others oppinons is what is necessary. logic is detrimental to what religions are trying to do.
I think you need logic to believe in God.
I meant that you keep rejecting the fact
Just because you believe there is a heaven, doesn't make you instantly go there. We are literally just a bunch of reacting cells. We have no souls. We can't CHOOSE if we have an afterlife. We just have to use logic and reasoning to figure out if one does exist. As he said, you are blinded by your own arrogance that you can't reject the fact that you need logic to understand things.
until there is evidence of gays having a choice or not we should end this debate.
Dave mentioned this earlier.
Don't know what that wow is for. You said you don't care about getting heaven or God.
It's pointless to carry on conversations with people like you. Your so blinded by your own arrogance this is going nowhere. I'm not going to waste my time with this debate anymore.
Wow, just wow.
Why do you not answer my questions yet get mad when I give you a answer you don't want?
Just telling you the truth, if you don't want God or heaven that can be arranged. Saten will take anyone.
You know what, I have told you I an gay, I have written in this debate and not once have you risked your values to ASK me "Hey! Did you choose to be gay?" and that is because you have already decided my answer for me. And when I tell you of course I didn't CHOOSE to be gay you will instantly dismiss my answer and go back to BECAUSE GOD SAID IT! So yeah, this is why conversations regarding this matter never gets anywhere. Just a thought for you to ponder, why would I willingly CHOOSE to be gay, life is hard enough without having to go through people like you to feel unwanted. Use your heads.
1 hr a week is constant worship?
My life has improved since I been studieing God more, and taking classes about theology.
So you are saying having 80 great years on earth and eternal punishment in hell is better then 80 good/ok/bad years on earth and eternal happiness.
FYE eternal is longer then a lifetime.
To be totally honest, I feel my life is much more fulfilled without following a book or a god that demands constant worship so that you may POSSIBLY get into heaven when you die. A book that frightens the weak minded into believing its every word or else they will go to hell. A book that is responsible for more human deaths than plagues. I believe as others have said. Once you dismiss the idea of god and the bible for the fables that they are; your life will improve.
I try to love thy nieghbor, I fail because I'm human. Is there any religious book that people if that religious follow? No.
You have no book so you can say "I didn't break any rules" because you have no rules.
Pretty sure it says love thy neighbour in that book of yours, but most of you seem to conveniently push that to the backs of your minds.
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act.
What does that verse you gave me say?
god made us bisexual, Leviticus 2014
I ment straight not gay sorry
My question was when did you choose to be gay. I love the way religious people avoid answering simple questions.
God made us straight, I choose to stay straight.
Alex I'd like to ask you a simple question and I'd like you to answer. When did you choose to be straight?
So if I say "that guy looks good"
then marry a woman who I love, have kids and live a normal life I'm gay?
Definition of gay: (of a man) attracted to the same sex
Lesbian: (of a woman) ^^
an answer to your question I say yes.
Alex, I will ask you what I always do in these debates. Can you choose to be gay and find those of the same sex attractive?
Being gay is no more of a choice than being born with blue eyes. I am fortunate enough to have been born with both.
Learned behaviors are still not necessarily choices, but they can be so fair enough. Until we have more evidence supporting one side or the other we can defer the debate.
Alright, agree to disagree. I think it is a learned behavior, but we don't know yet until more conclusive evidence is brought forth
The ancient Greeks were gay, but did not have gay marriages. You can find other men to look attractive, but woman is what looks most attractive to men, This is how God created us. He created woman to be a parter for man, not a man to be a parter for man, nor both for the man to choose.
I did mention that the study was not definitive. There is no proven answer to whether it is nature or nurture, but it is pretty evident that it is not as simple as a conscious decision.
That still doesn't make it a choice. If it is genetic, there is no choice involved. If it is not but is a learned behavior, it is still not necessarily a choice. I would not be able to choose to be gay as I do not find other men attractive. Since I cannot make that choice it would be hypocritical of me to expect that gay people could choose not to.
but with Dave's argument, I know a study they did that 'proved' of a gay gene, but another group did the same exact study and had different results. So the studies can't be conclusive. I think that someone is not born gay, just like someone isn't born evil
Ancient Japan had homosexuality, as did ancient Greece and Rome. Being gay is not a new thing in any way. If it were, how could God have objected to it thousands of years ago?
which I would was a few thousand years ago
The Greeks did homo sexual acts and thought nothing of it
Why is being gay a new thing? If it was not a choice then why did ancient people not be gay or even people 200 years ago?
Funny how you have no hard proof or definitive evidence to support your claim. Usally you are accusing me of this.
Yes. It was mentioned earlier in this debate. There are studies showing genetic similarities between gay men. They are not definitive, but they do provide verifiable evidence.
Is there any evidence to support the claim that someone is born gay?
I think that real gay people (bi and pan included) do not have a choice in who they fall in love with. Some people just fake being gay for the attention.
Being gay is not simply "how one chooses to identify one self", it is who you are attracted to. Gay people are attracted to those of the same gender. I have yet to see any evidence that people can decide their sexual orientation, so unless you can remember when you decided to not find people of the same gender attractive, how can you justify saying that being gay is a choice?
being gay is how one chooses to identify one self unless you are a Hermaphrodite then most homosexual exploit them to have their selfish way why to be something they are not. why do people chose to be something they are not to make sense of their imperfections and give an excuse why they are imperfect or different rather then taking the proper course of action to admitting to error or flaw and revealing the true reason of being. so what is human Being is acting out how you wan people to perceive you as you chose how you want to be defined as.
yeah well so is being ignorant...
Even then, law can only act as a prohibitive device. Let's say someone wants to rape. In that case, law is probably an afterthought. The person can go out and accomplish the task, and then go onto evade the law. And they do.
The person committing the act of rape, is not only a rapist because he raped. It was also because he wanted to rape. Two men may live totally different lives, if one oppresses their rapist nature, and the other does not. But just because the one rapist did rape, and wanted to rape... I'm not so sure it was a choice. Instead, I think if part of him was trying to restrain himself so he could live a normal life, but at the end of the day the impulse was too strong, then that thing he consciously wanted (being not a rapist) couldn't happen, and he had to rape.
Not to justify such a thing... A dangerous animal needs to be in a cage.
But with regards to homosexuality, I would say the same thing. Problem is, there's no reason for the gay person to want to not be gay, and to resist, except family, religion, law. When the gay person has sex with their lover they're just giving into their nature. It would be a choice to do otherwise, but it would not change their nature. They would be a gay person, choosing not to do gay things. When they are actively homosexual, they aren't choosing, they are merely being.
In that case, I can see where you are coming from. Had the topic been about the choice to have gay sex or be in a homosexual relationship, then I would certainly agree that those things are choices. I don't feel that anyone should try to intrude on those choices with their judgment, but they are choices.
Being gay, on the other hand, is not something one does, it is something one is. It is who you are attracted to and whose company you desire. These are not things you do or choose. You can choose to act on them or not, but not how to feel.
To use the food analogy, refusing to eat sweets would not change whether you have a sweet tooth or not. People who have a sweet tooth desire sugar and candy. Those who do not, have less desire for it. Either one can choose to eat candy or not, but that choice doesn't change their attraction to sweets.
just clarify a point.
"I have no choice." means I can't control myself to like sth?
If that's ur meaning, I am totally agree.
That's why I say: " I agree many evidence indicate that someone is born to be gay."
But to me, "I have no choice." means I can't do sth I want to do.
That's I think only law constraints us. No one can make me no choice including religions or families.
Do you feel people should be shunned, harassed, beaten or killed because they don't like the same food as you? Religious people disagree with the actions of gay people, when those actions have absolutely no impact on them.
Hunger is actually a good analogy, I'm glad you brought it up. Religious people are asking gay people to live without love and companionship because they disagree with who they are attracted to. That would be like asking someone who is hungry to starve because you disagree with what foods they like. How can anyone justify saying that another needs to suffer because they have different tastes?
So by your analogy, being hungry is a choice. If society says eating is wrong because an old book says so, everyone should starve to death.
You say gay people have to make a hard choice, but say they decided to respect the Bible and it's teachings and never had any relationship with someone of the same gender. They would still be gay. What they do is a choice, who they are is not. You have confirmed that who one is attracted to is not a choice, therefore being gay is not a choice. Whether you act on it or not is a choice, but being gay itself is not.
Raping is an action.
Eating is an action also.
Do we say that we can't choose what to eat because our gene control what we like? If a man eats an apple, is that his own choice or not?
moreover, what things you think we can have a choice?
yes, being gay is matter of you are attracted to.
If you are discussing about our nature, I agree many evidence indicate that someone is born to be gay.
But what is the meaning behind this conclusion?
Hunger is our nature, so?
Lust is our nature, so?
If you love someone just in your brain, you are free to do that.
If you love someone and want to be with him/her, you might be affected by someone in society.But it doesn't mean you dont have a choice, it only means that you have to make a hard decision.
Raping someone is an action. Being gay is a matter of who you are attracted to, not an action you take. Perhaps you consider rape to be an integral part of your identity, I can't think of any other reason you would try to present it as an involuntary action, but most people feel it is an action one chooses and a crime.
I notice that you have yet to explain when you chose to stop being gay (or potentially gay). If it is a choice, there must have been a time before you made that choice, when you could have gone either way. When was that ? Instead of insinuating that being gay is equivalent to rape, how about you approach it as an intellectual debate and rebut the arguments?
A man rape a girl and says I cant control myself to be desired to have sex with you, it is not my choice. What do you think?
actually, i totally agree with your point. There are many things in the world that affect us. That is true.
But is it sufficient to prove that "something affects me, I dont have a choice."?
You have to explain what kind of things in our lives is not affected by society, family or other person?
If everything in our lives is affected by other force, is that mean we dont need to be responsible for anyrhing? Because we have no choice.
You are saying here that when we are not making a decision, it can only be because we are forced to do a thing. You then go onto say that "in an open society, that kind of force can only come from law." I would like to hear a validation for this claim. Don't you think there are many other constraining forces coming from life, nature and the world which ultimately cause/force certain things to happen? And if you do think this, why don't you think these things haven't any influence, or even control/force over who a person is and what they does?
When did you choose to be straight? I know I did not make that choice. I just was never attracted to other men. For you to maintain that it is a choice, you have to justify when you made that decision. Could you, right now, look at a man and choose to find him attractive? If not, then homosexuality is not a choice.
Some people seem to confuse being gay with physical sex. If someone has never had sex, their sexual orientation is not undetermined. Who they are attracted to, by necessity, precedes sex. Therefore your sexual orientation is determined before you have sex.
If it is not our own choices, which we are forced to be gay by some certain things. In a open society, that kind of force can only come from law. However, law dosen't restrict our sex orientation, which means I have the right to choose to be gay.
Of course, there must be some pressure come from society. However, it doesn't mean that we lose our right to make our own choice. Almost everything in our lives will be judged by other people, but we still need to account for our choices. That means we make the ultimate decision, we have the right to choose.
Being gay is more than the actual of sex. By your assessment, being straight is simply a matter of penetration. If you view relationships, attractions, and partnerships as purely a matter of physical sex, I pity anyone you date.
It is a choice you can have genes to make you attracted to masculinity. but I've yet to see the gene that makes you put dicks in your but.
purely lifestyle choice
I never "chose" to be bisexual, and if you honestly believe that being gay is a "choice", then tell me: when did you "choose" to be straight?
But whether something changes or not is not the topic. The topic is choice. Did those friends choose to change who they were attracted to, or did who they were attracted to change independently of their decision? I have never met someone who chose to be gay,or anyone who has chosen not to be. Everyone I have met has been attracted to some people, and not to others, but never by choice. People have preferences and types, but these are still within their biological and psychological framework of what kind of person is attractive.
it depends on a situation most LGBT people i know say thats how they always were but there are a few that say that their emotions changed and had feelings for the same sex it is impossible to decide on one answer
I would find it difficult to believe of homosexuality being a choice. Back in this days where there was harsh persecution regarding homosexuality, there were still people who were gay.
What's more, it was considered, back in those days, that being gay wasn't something normal and people were suggested to undergo hormonal and surgical therapies. Under all this societal norms, I find it difficult to see how these individuals would choose to be gay.
It has been found in nature that homosexuality exists not just in humans, but also in animals, creatures whose intelligence are lower than our species; creatures who survive for the sake of their life, their descendants, and their expansion; creatures who did not choose homosexuality.
With this in consideration, why should we homosexual human beings, who have the capacity to think and decide, unlike animals, choose to be attracted to someone when it can just come naturally even in nature?
yes it is a choice. who knows,maybe the male had been mentally suffering from the depression done by the female. which then forces the male to not believe in female anymore. but he still needs love so. ended up being gay
I would disagree. I think that we are material beings, made out of stuff and caught by certain laws of biology and chemistry. In that, I don't think we have a "free will", but instead a limited, conditional will. We do have will, because can reflect internally and influence ourselves and use a method of determination to choose between options in the future. But this method is limited by our nature and conditional to our position in life. I could not tomorrow choose to be a totally different person. I could only establish a theory of who I want to be, and focus over years on changing my behaviors, working up new instincts, etc...
But when it comes to my natures, the best I can do is oppress them and pretend they're not my natures, or admit that they're my nature and choose to do otherwise. But I can't choose that which arouses me. Nor can I choose that which doesn't arouse me. I respond to stimuli and am neurologically modified by that or my own internal reflection..
Yes and No. There is no single cause for homosexuality. It can likely be caused by any of a multitude of causes, genetic, developmental and yes, people can choose to be homosexual. But why would anyone deny them that choice? Would it being a choice make a difference in how we should treat them? Would it make homosexuals bad people? No, everyone should have a right to make the choice on how to live their life. Many of our behavioral aspects are not chosen, but they are a result of our experiences and genetic factors. Would you deny a person is homosexual because of these factors? Whether homosexuality is a choice or not is irrelevant, it should be treated as a choice and people should be taught to respect homosexuals and accept them for making the choice.
So when did you choose not to be? I never had a moment when I thought about it and decided to be attracted to women, so if it was a choice, when did you make it?
I honestly feel that being gay is a choice only because no one decides you're own faint for you. you don't have to be gay. its your choice to be gay or not
To get input from people who feel differently. It seemed awkward to phrase the topic itself negatively.
why did you make a topic to disagree with it?
If being gay is a choice, each person would have to decide who they are attracted to. In my life, I have never been attracted to another man, nor have I ever been able to decide whether or not I found someone attractive. I have never been able to decide to be gay, so I can't credit anyone saying that homosexuality is a choice.
That said, I know my personal experience may not be representative of everyone else's. The lack may be my own. Hence the topic.