The debate "Breastfeeding should be allowed in public" was started by
January 19, 2016, 11:37 am.
28 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 11 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
danielle posted 18 arguments, Sosocratese posted 3 arguments, State57 posted 5 arguments, reece posted 2 arguments, PsychDave posted 16 arguments to the agreers part.
ReadyToBegin posted 21 arguments, reece posted 37 arguments to the disagreers part.
danielle, PsychDave, Sosocratese, State57, blaisinganarchy, rob5998, Jctrkstr, AlenaMaisel, jayhard, WaspToxin, YouThinkYoureBetterThanMe, TheMartian, aftermath and 15 visitors agree.
Firplius, reece, RightWing, sabrina, ReadyToBegin and 6 visitors disagree.
Funny debate. lol.
Fair enough then.
Yes. I don't care if he has an eight pack. The man needs a shirt.
As for your other reponse. I guess we agree to disagree.
Just out of curiosity, do you find men going topless to be indecent as well.
In that case I retract my comment about your view being hypocritical. I still firmly disagree with you since I do not find it indecent and, even if I did, I would not try to tell someone what to wear. Many parts of the world are more open about the human body, and in many parts of the world it is entirely legal for women to go topless just like men. I don't feel I have the right to dictate what women should have to wear.
I do agree that women should have places they can go that are private, but since I don't find it in any way offensive I don't think they should be forced to use them if they don't want to. I don't see any real distinction between a baby breastfeeding and a child having a snack on goldfish crackers. Neither are an offensive or sexual act, so I don't think either should be required to be hidden. If a woman is uncomfortable, she should have places she can go, but to say that she is offensive is to be the cause of her discomfort.
Oh. and more on the bikini.I think it aids Pedofiles (from personal encounters in the past)
But thank you for giving a good debate. You do ask some interesting and inquisitive questions.
I answer yes to both. I actually really support dress codes and such. Why do they even make bikinis (minus female exploration and good capitalism)? Most are impratical for swimming and have low functioning rates. I also feel that they are indecent. Women feel exploited because through and through they are scene as sex symbols. If swimwear was more practical...
As for the breastfeeding. You're right. I think it is indecent and (as someone on your side said) women don't even want to do it in public. Why not make places for them to? That would make sense.
I did not confuse the two of you. I am aware that your views are more internally consistent than Reese, and that you dislike even partial nudity. The question is, do you consider bikinis to be indecent. You can dislike women breastfeeding as much as you want, but that is not the topic. Would you feel you have the right to ban women from wearing bikinis?
You are right, I was being glib. I was trying to illustrate the problem with expecting a nursing mother to use a public bathroom.
Did you confuse reece and me? I stated that I don't like swimsuits not built for swimming and have very conservative views on nudity. I hate bikinis and skimpy wear. Please do not jump to the conclusion that I am a hypocrite or that my arguement is flawed.
If you agree that women need more areas and now see that I wasnt being a hypocrite. . . then where does that leave use Dave? Limbo?
Formula is not bad for babies, but breastmilk has benefits that formula does not, like passing on immunities. If breastmilk is better for the child than formula, which many studies have shown, why should anyone try to force a mother not to breastfeed?
I agree that there should be areas available for mothers, but I honestly don't see how you can justify that a baby eating is indecent but a bikini isn't. Unless you can justify that distinction, your argument for moral opposition is either flawed or outright hypocritical.
(I know you aren't being genuine but) Don't feel bad. It was more along the lines of being kicked out for being inappropriately dressed. I feel the same way as this situation.
I know these are directed at reece but I want to respond to the first one.
I think there should be mandatory areas for women like handicap and smoking that are provided. If it must be there by law they can go there all the time. It would be there. As for formula. It could be part of a health care plan or something else that is covered for need.
I feel sorry for you if you grew up somewhere that the bathrooms are as hygienic as the restaurants. In most parts of the world places for eating are kept more hygienic.
So if she can't afford formula, you would prefer the infant how hungry and scream until they get home? Not everywhere has nursing rooms, so what do you propose as a solution?
Saying that mothers should use formula is you trying to dictate how they feed their child, so what gives you the right to take that decision away from her?
I was raised in a place where shit like that happened lol. I know that there are places that refuse service and such. I respect it. I need to dress better.
True. But you are suggesting that the baby eat in the bathroom. Would you find it hygienic if someone told you that they felt that you were not decently dressed so you had to eat a meal in the public washroom?
You just said shopping.
Reece's arguement wasn't all about public decency though mine was however. Reece had other points as well.
I also wouldn't say that reece's arguement is illogical. It makes sense. Public indecency is a thing in society. As someone else said too. If women themselves don't want to be seen doing it then why not make areas for them? Why not places to go? It seems logical.
she could grab a bottle and similac on her way out and fix it for the baby to feed it
i understand breastfeeding is natural ..but that doesn't mean i have to see it and like it without being offended that a grown woman would do that in public..there are many other options for feeding your baby..use them :)
Would you want to eat your meal in a mall bathroom?
Is there no bathroom? No area to go in the store/mall?
1)You explained what you perceive to be different, which is the context of the skin revealed. What you obviously don't understand is that a child doesn't yet have this context, which is why they would ask.
2)Your entire argument against breastfeeding in public is that it is against public decency, this means that your sensibilities are offended by it. Breastfeeding is a baby eating so, if you find breastfeeding to be indecent, you are being offended by a child eating.
3) I understand your point, but as has repeatedly been demonstrated it is illogical. I have read your points, I understand your perspective, I simply disagree with you
If you have further arguments feel free to voice them, but whether you find breastfeeding indecent or not is irrelevant. The majority of America, and the world, understands that breastfeeding is natural.
I will give you a common problem from breastfeeding moms. If they are out shopping, and the baby gets hungry, where should she feed him/her?
lol oohhh pyschdive did i hit a nerve you sound a tad bit angry ... 1) i certainly explained the difference between a child seeing a "baby eating" and what they would see on a beach 2) when did i ever say a child eating was "offensive" 3) i see youre STILL not comprehending because ive explained in every detail that its about human decency and NOT about being offended because of a "baby eating" lolol maybe you should go back and reread my statements again and actually think about what I'm saying lol
1) You are right. I said that breast is best, then I backed it up with a logical explanation for why. How do you think this has furthered your position to point out?
2) I've read your comments. So far I have yet to see any rationale beyond your squeemishness. You tried to justify it with am imaginary situation where a child was curious about the human body after seeing a baby eating, but failed to explain how this is different than what they would see on a beach. Why is a child eating offensive to you? I know you will claim that you explained it earlier, but all you have done is restated that you find women's bodies offensive in different ways. Do you have another argument beyond this sexist double standard, or are you going to rely on childish insults for lack of supporting arguments?
lol sorry i honestly don't mean to be but when people's ability to comprehend isn't as strong as it needs to be i get very irritable because i hate to repeat myself and restate my points over and over again....I'm not a tape recorder and i certainly dont have time to sit and explain something to someone lolololol
Haha. That was kind of rude . . . now we shall wait for psychDave's response? The high ground or low ground? Or jelly?
1) im not the one that stated that...if you remember you're the one that said that..not me ...2). my insecurities are nonexistent in this discussion like i said before you ARE NOT COMPREHENDING my point of view and i don't have time to restate what i said ...go back and read my comments ma'am thank you
Though I do see peeing becoming an issue. maybe.
I was kind of joking with defecation, but I do have a serious problem with nude culture. I feel like all cultures are fair too nude these days. I feel like it really will get out of hand.
I don't see how this is a slippery slope me to people pooping on the street. People have been able to breastfeed in public in many parts of the world without ever seeing the kind of problems that you are concerned about. What do you think makes people where you like likely to go wold when no other nation has had that problem?
If the best you can say for formula is that it is no worse than breastmilk, breast is still best, it is just tired for best. Realistically, formula is not as good as breastmilk, as numerous studies have shown. Why does your insecurity about women mean they should compromise their child's nurturing?
I feel like it would open the door to people wanting to be completely nude all the time. People wanting to pee or poop where ever. I feel like it would be that crack in the pipe that makes the pipe burst.
I am against people (no matter what gender) not having clothes on. A beach is meant for swimming and I don't support bathing suits that aren't good for it.
You could say I have a very conservative view on nudity.
???? i don't get think you comprehended my view on the situation like you should have....I'm not afraid breast milk will cause anything and in fact its not about me being "afraid" its about human decency..have some respect for others around you at least..even if you aren't waving you breast around you are still exposing it for others to possibly see
Are all these directed at reece? Or all of the opposition? Cause it seems...
Actually I feel that are culture makes us want to expose people more. Take pics and make fun of the women that had was breastfeeding. I feel like things similar happen a lot in society now. Like bystanders and such.
Not that I would do this. People would still talk and it would be inappropriate
?? ok you lost me lol..in the beginning you state that breastfeeding is not just an opinion and then you say formula is no worse than breast milk...lol what side are you on??
What are you actually afraid it will cause? Do you find men going shirtless disgusting? Do you find women at the beach disgusting? Where does it become unacceptable and a slippery slope?
social adequate would tell you to just look somehwee eleze
Your opinion may be based on you finding a baby eating gross, but to claim that breastfeeding is the best source of food for a baby is not just an opinion.
US department of Health and Human Services
Public Health Agency of Canada
UK Department of Health
Economist article about a study published in Lancet Global Health
Some people make exorbitant claims about the benefits, but at best formula is no worse than breast milk since it is designed to be a substitute for just that. There is no problem with women choosing to bottle feed, but balancing your objections to someone else's actions that in no way impact you against a hungry child, you will lose every time.
its not about being "judged" for breast feeding your baby..that would be absurd...its about having social adequate
I think as long as she isnt waving around her boobs shouting at people to look at her! and is covering herself as best as possible then it is fine! I understand why people find it uncomfortable but it isn't hard to look away.:)
And you're right. I honestly cant think of a solution for that case and I can't think of how to make it go away completely. I really don't want breast out, but if it must be done it has to be covered. Even then, it is quite disturbing. I feel like that freedom will lead to justifications for other things.
there might not be anywhere else? I'm pretty sure no woman wants to sit openly in public and do it and will find somewhere private to do it if she could, but if not then she shouldn't be judged for feeding her child
was beginning to think that as well, turning into a chuckle brothers moment
This arguement seems to get more and more out of hand . . . fun to read. I still don't see why they can't go somewhere else.
that's your personal opinion!
its your personal opinion...and you're welcome :)
I did study child development thank you very much and yes we looked at the fee disadvantages to breast feeding but there are far more diadvanted to bottle feeding! so yes breast is best is tru!
like i stated before..."breast is best" is your personal opinion sir :)
oh really??...well if you "studied" child development you would have learned that there are just as many disadvantages to breastfeeding a baby as there are feeding a baby a bottle
it is not my personal opinion, it is a fact! you may work in a day care but I have studied child development! half my course work was on it! it was literally titled Breast vs bottle!!
And that is your own personal opinion ma'am..everybody doesn't agree that "breast is best"
lol ok i apologize for being rude
don't be so rude Reece! I was simply just saying that I worked somewhere breastfeeding was common, by minority I meant people who don't agree! and NO I am not blind YES formula exists but whether you like it or not BREAST IS BEST!
exactly you said keywords.. doctors recommend
lol are you blind????? i literally just stated that similac and all the other baby foods substitutes as breast miilk
oh but they do think more than twice :)..trust me
...what does arts and crafts has to do with the general???????....what does "the minority" have to do with this??????
yeah feed it formula if you want but no matter what you say breast milk is best! and doctors do recommend breast feeding over formula!
minority?..and your definition of minority is????
and it is that simple! what do you want them to do, "oh my baby is starving oh well let's let it starve"!
you act as if it is MANDATOARY that the baby gets breast fed or else they will die...oblivious one that's what similac and all of the other baby food substitutes as...so quite saying it as if the baby NEEDS breast milk ..or else the PROFESSIONAL DOCTOR would have said that it was MANDATORY that you feed your baby your breast milk
oh you work in day care how convenient! I'm not saying kids aren't curious, I'm saying that they literally dont think twice!
i never once said that i knew "exactly what kids see" i said that kids are very curious and curiosity could lead them to act based on CURIOSITY.. you cant just say "oh they are feeding their baby" its not that simple..they are going to have a million and one questions after that
Well i work in a daycare so i THINK I have a tad bit more knowledge of how kids react to things and their curious nature....
exactly!! I used to work in basically an arts and craft shop, mums would bring their kids in all the time and all the time some one would start breastfeeding! not onve did any child comment, not once did anyone complain, no one stared, literally no one cared! it is the minority that have issues with it!
if the child asks "what is she doing" say "she's feeding her baby" the child will probably take your word for it, cause a child believes what their parent says, then the child will go back to whatever it is their doing.
nor are you! you are just insisting you know exactly what kids see! where isnyour valid argument!
my valid argument is that if you don't feed your child it will die!
yes you can use formula but breast is best
yes kids could see but like someone else said you literally can barely see anything, women use blankets to cover themselves
Yeah eventually the jids will learn about tye bees the birds and the trees but the question is ....WHEN and at at what age??
You don't know what kids "don't care about" so you sir or madame aren't giving a valid explanation
Just because they don't see anything doesn't mean that it doesn't make them curious.....
kids don't care about it, they know that it's something natural! we should teach our kids that! woman shouldn't be ashamed to feed their baby!! JUST DONT LOOK! seriously how hard is it! you teach your children not to look! fgs!
Reece if the woman has an apron on the child does not see anything.
omg did you really copy and paste?????
This is America sir and women walking around with their breasts out is abnormal....
Of course... because you "pros" are only looking at the baby's benefits and what the baby gets out of public breastfeeding but you are COMPLETELY ignoring what effects (a young child seeing a woman's breast at such an early age) it could have on a child
In my honest opinion, I don't want anyone walking around without a shirt on whether it is a barechested woman or male. I want people to keep their clothes on. But that's a different arguement.
I still find designated areas better or a place to go rather than public.
Reece you seem to think that when a woman is breastfeeding she is prancing around yelling "look at me!!!". when someone is breastfeeding you can barely see anything, the baby itself covers everything. I am shocked that people would disagree with this! babies need to eat! yes there is formula but everybody knows breast is best! and most mums want their child to have the best! someone mentioned antibodies earlier on and this is true, breast milk provides the baby with the mothers immunity.
it is nothing like seeing a naked woman in the street, why can't you just look away! it's not hard! why can't you understand that babies need to be fed and breast feeding is the natural way to do it! not to mention some people may not be able to afford formula all the time!!!
I grew up in Europe, exposed breasts are quite common at any park, any public pool, any beach, etc.... It's just not that big of a deal. I ask you again, how is it any different for a woman to be topless as opposed to a guy? Why does it make a difference to you? Why should women submit to your sense of decency? Why is it that your repressed sense of what is decent should dictate how a woman can feed their child, when a woman can feed their child, and what a woman can feed their child? I'm not advocating for full on public nudity in this thread (although I don't really have a problem with that either), I'm simply arguing that your sensibility for decency should take a back seat to the health, nutrition, and happiness of a child. If breastfeeding is how that child is being nourished, then your sense of decency should allow you to just look away.
Why is it that you can't control what you're looking at?
so you mean to tell me if you saw a naked women walking down the street you wouldn't be offended?....you're saying you'd look away because its "her business"? ..that statement sounds absurd because you're not making any logic of this discussion and frankly I'm not understanding your point.. reality check we live in a country that allows us civil rights therefore WE have a right to freedom of SPEECH not freedom of nudity ..a women exposing her breasts in public not only is her business but becomes part of every one else's who involuntarily sees her breasts as well ..a woman exposing her breast in her own domain sure why not..but a woman exposing her breast in public ABSOLUTELY NOT
Why is it a strangers job to protect your sense of decency? They're just breasts. Why should your sense of decency provide the standard for their interactions and their feeding options? Why should a woman have to choose formula when she is breastfeeding? You are free to not look, you can teach your kids a valuable lesson about minding their own business at the same time.
How is it any different for a woman to have a breast out from a man having their chest bare. Just because you can't control your sexual arousal and simply look away shouldn't mean that women should be treated differently. It's like forbidding women to wear yoga pants, it's just silly sexism and a product of a sexually repressed public.
I've already touched on the possibilities of breastfeeding in public with an apron on so maybe you should go back and read my beginning statements :)
But isn't that different from a restroom? If a man pees with his shirt or something covering his penis next to you outside. It is not the same as being in the restroom urinals in an enclosed space.
Lol. Nope. I'll stop now. I like to see that it is even however
similac isn't as unhealthy as you portray it to be sir
Maybe I am crazy, but on the side of your past comments it is blue. The screen is sort of sensitve so . . .
now I've voted ..and i still disagree ..any more irrelevant questions about me and my voting side???? :)
Reece what is your objection to a apron covering the breastfeeding. nobody sees anything. same thing as watching someone go into a restroom. you don't see anything, yet you know what they are doing.
i never voted.....
reece, for some reason it has you on the agree side for your comments. Did you,change it later or click the wrong one?
Like i stated before in the beginning of the discussion i believe breastfeeding should NOT be allowed in public
bottled water isn't "plain water" (whatever that is ?) bottled water is filtered water meaning free of acids and any other harmful substances that TAP water contains..and research says that Similac contains nourishment helps with eye,brain, and the immune development and the overall growth of your baby
I agree with what you are saying State57 and instead see a different route. Why not have more spaces made for women to breastfeed and people to pee and poop? I can see this as practical compromise if not enough space is an issue.
The example you gave was of people breaking the law by the way, but I think you knew that. It is actually a sexual offense if you pee in public and get arrested. You have to regester as a sex offender.
Not healthy options. Formula is known to increase the risk of the development of allergies and lacks much in the eat of nutrition and the development of antibodies.
Alone it is. Doctors discourage women from feeding babies plain water, because it can damage their brains or full them up without providing them proper nutrition.
It is lovely when establishments provide dedicated nursing rooms. Women use these GLADLY when they are available. Sadly, they are not available in most places. When they are not, babies still need to eat. Babies nursing do not create biohazards either. You defecating would; however people have been known to relieve themselves on the side of the road when no other options are available. Babies have at least as much of a right to nurse as these people do to need nature's call.
As reece said. There are other options.
oh really? bottled water is dangerous yet they have bottled water in stores SPECIFICALLY for formula use?????....
But if we make the agreement that breast-feeding must be done in public then can't people also say that peeing and having sexual intercourse in public should be acceptable. After all you do need to pee and poop. People could just "look the other way".
Bottled water is dangerous alone and Similac does not provide babies with the antibodies or nutrition they need. Three words for you: Look somewhere else.
4 words for you
bottled water and similac...
The child sees a baby under the apron..they are going to wonder what the baby is doing under the apron..seeing women in bikinis at a beach (where it is normal to wear less clothing and dress in bikinis) is COMPLETELY different from breast feeding a baby in a public setting (which is abnormal for ANYBODY to see) ..a child seeing a women in a bikini at a BEACH wont have the same effect as a child seeing (or hearing) a baby suck its mother's breast at a public setting...it is guaranteed that the child will remember the lady that pulled her breast out in public rather than girls in bikinis on a beach ...There is absolutely NO comparison
Newborns need to eat every two hours or they can starve. The harm of leaving a baby malnourished is far worse than an action that may suggest that women have something under a nursing cover.
what if the child sees a woman in a bikini at the beach, or even with a shirt on. same thing. the apron gives full coverage, and the child doesn't see anything.
you're talking about one area while I'm speaking in general..majority of the adults would agree that they wouldn't want their child seeing breasts while they're out eating at a restaurant, watching a movie in a public movie theater, or etc. ..say what if the parent IS wearing an apron that still gives the under aged child the illusion that something is under that apron and then the curiosity sparks and that's when the three forbidden letters enters the mind of a young child ....all because of the ONE BREAST they saw while being breastfed to a baby that couldn't care less how it was fed and where as long as it was fed :)
not openly, but it should still be allowed.
many woman put an apron, or some sort of covering on when breastfeeding. this way they can breastfeed their baby without exposing anything to anyone. where I live this is common, and nobody has any problems.
Breast feeding should not be allowed in public and there are many reasons why i say that but the main reason is public indecency. Some parents don't want their children seeing certain woman parts at a certain age and that issue shouldn't be argued. :)
Absolutely; if we really valued family, then this wouldn't be an issue. It's just a little nudity. It's no big deal. Go to Europe and look at their ads along the road, go to a public pool, go to a park on a hot day and you'll see just how repressed we are.
if you don't like it, don't look
no! a woman doesn't whack out her boob and wave it around in front of everyone, most of the time you can barely notice it as the baby covers it. babies need feeding and breastfeeding is the natural way to do it! it's better for the baby and promotes bonding to deny it is going against nature!!
wouldn't that be public indecency?