The debate "Can someone who believes in the Trinity explain how this can be true" was started by
August 5, 2016, 3:20 pm.
12 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 13 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
Nemiroff posted 2 arguments, blakelovesjesus posted 9 arguments to the agreers part.
Nemiroff, blakelovesjesus, moneybagboyz, TheDebator9000 and 8 visitors agree.
thereal, arisa, historybuff, Vayney333 and 9 visitors disagree.
Yes he was the same God.
so Jesus was God's son sent to earth, yet Jesus was God himself? Was Jesus the same god who sent Jesus?(?)
or another God?
humans are weak, ignorant and limited
god is all-powerful, all-knowing, unlimited
All I do is share love wdz, because Jesus commanded us to love our enemies, and pray for those who persecute you.
well it is completely possible god and human at the same time what is the problem i can't understand?
They do not contradict. Jesus was sent to do what the father proclaimed. In his human form, Jesus preached only what the father proclaimed to him as a human. He took on the form, and took on what we do, except sin. Jesus was still divine, but he learned as man did. He was the perfect man only because he was divine. The Father sent his son on a mission to redeem the world in the form of man. We also hear of the transfiguration and jesus's divine form. Jesus was divine, but he was also a human.
We're all ignorant of it though, and as i said these are thoughts, not teachings.
I'm not ignoring the concept of him being 100% man & 100% god, and also your belief in it. What I would like is someone to explain how it can be possible, yet the obvious contradictions that exist?
I am fully aware of what you believe, the issue is whether it is possible. God does not act or exist in contradictions does he?
But you ignore that he was also 100% man. Jesus humbled himself in the flesh of man, and with it accepted temptation and suffering. He functioned entirely as man. Since Christ was man, he acted as man; he prayed, hungered, and sweat blood in the garden. However, he was sent on a mission to do these things, not more. Christ was sent to do these things, and when he was to be divine it was through the revelation of the father. Christ's divinity is apparent in his obedience to the Father in every aspect of life despite his humanity. He could do all of the things of god and know all, but he humbled himself in the flesh. Again these are my thoughts not catechism.
so Jesus isn't 100% God then? for if he was 100% God, he would NOT NEED ANYTHING (I'm not angry, I'm emphasising). Bring 100% God would mean he knows everything, being 100% God means he cannot have attributes which contradict his godliness.
If you believe so, then your understanding of a supreme divine entity such as God is flawed
so God was unjust here, killing (in you opinion) a man who didn't sin?
I'm not misunderstanding you, your reasons and conclusions you make are usually unrelated. You try to explain how man n God can co-exist in the same body, but then talk about love. Talking about love does not explain how they co-exist.
Calling someone the devil, or saying they are angry is just an easy way for you to divert the attention to something else. If you had strong belief, you would do your best to counter my claims, and not make personal attacks, which just weaken your position.
all of humanity's sins had been erased by his crucifixion jesus was crucified to forgive our sins he paid the price of our sins on the cross he never sinned before but was crucified because of us
each of them has it's own job it is not the job of the son to determine the time of the second coming
Ill add this is one of the greatest mysteries
Please understand the following may not doctrine. Jesus was born fully divine and human. Jesus needed to learn things from experience; the human method of learning. He needed to ask the name of one of the apostles, not because he wasn't God, but because he was man. Im not saying Jesus is incapable of knowing, but he was also man. He was told whatever the father proclaimed: his mission was sent to him by the father, and he preached what the father preached. The Father never intended for the Son to preach the entirety of everything, just what was done. The thing is Jesus was sent by the father to do his will in the form of man. Not that they were not equal, let me be clear. Since Jesus was fully human aswell, he learned as man does. It was saying that if the Son doesnt know, there is no way humans could no unless the Father were to tell the son. Jesus prayed as a man because he was one, yet he was still divine.
I will elaborate with the crucifixion. Jesus prayed that the Father's will should be acted upon, not his own. If Jesus had been fully divine and not human, the test would have not been sacrificial since he would have no reason not to do it. But since he was human, he felt the pain and dread of his death; however he still accepted it in accordance with his mission. He was divine, but also human.
I don't know everything. But what I do know I will tell you. Jesus atoned for our sins, you are miss understanding me. Getting frustrated is getting ignorant, and that's not going to convince me, right now your speaking of the devil, and that's not what I listen to. I listen to facts not blaintant claims and anger.
"The reason they can co-exist is because God loved us enough to give us an loving relationship with him" - the reason you gave doesn't explain how they can co-exist?
Can you be physically dead & alive in the same time, same space?
Jesus said he was finished way before the cruxifiction (supposedly) happened
"he was never ignorant" - are you sure? Doesn't know the hour? Angry for the fig tree not bearing fruit?
How do you know Jesus was talking "as a human"? Who or what told you that?
And your statement "jesus was talking as a human not to reveal the time for he knows" makes no sense. He said the son (which is him in the context) DOES NOT KNOW. Jesus did not say "the son knows but hides it from everyone". He ckearky said He, Jesus, the being (as you believe to god & man) DOES NOT KNOW, and that ONLY the father knows
Jesus has even proven here that all 3 persons of the trinity are not equal and are not each 100% god, as one is all knowing (the father) while the other 2 are not.
jesus was talking as a human not to reveal the time for he knows but it's the Father's job to determine the time
He said it is finished, he knew he had defeated sin
On himself, Jesus died so we could live. And he was never ignorant, he never sined. The reason they can co-exist is because God loved us enough to give us an loving relationship with him
so are you saying he cried out to god because he had the sins of everyone in himself?
But when Jesus is in his "human" role, isn't he overpowering his Godly form, as they cannot co-exist? Jesus cannot be all-knowledgable yet be ignorant at the same time, for example, when Jesus said that no one knows of the hour, not even the angels, not even the son (Jesus), but only the father.
How do you explain that?
When Jesus was on the cross, he said that because he had the sins of everyone on him, and wasn't really that God had left him.
so where the father and the holy ghost? have they disappeared?
or is Jesus also the father and the holy ghost?
so when Jesus was supposedly on the cross and he supposedly said "My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?", Jesus here is asking himself why he has forsaken himself?
god is one jesus is within this one god he is the son
jesus was god and human at the same time so he says as a human that i have a god but he himself is god
Jesus came for the sinners, not the righteous
No human can overpower God. But the beauty of the Trinity is that he gives us a second chance through it. God came down as a human as the Bible said the word became flesh, in this reason we have now become right with God. But only if you choose to except him.
so Jesus switches between being fully human and fully god?
if that's the case, is his human will overpowering his Godly will?
so Jesus was all-knowing and ignorant at the same time?
so would you see only 1 God, or would you see the father, the son and the holy spirit separately?
and if they are not separate, where has Jesus gone?
the god of his body he is talking as a human in here
fully both god and human
1 god is one
Why does Jesus say, in John 20:17, "I am ascending to my father and your father, my God and your God"?
clearly Jesus is stating her that he has a God. the Hebrew word "Theos" - which means "God, the creator, the owner of all things", which is the same meaning in the OT for God/Theos
When Jesus was on earth, was he fully god? or fully human?
So when in heaven,and you see God, who is revealed to you? The father? the son? or the holy spirit?
If you say all three, then either you would be seeing:
- all three separately as 3 separate beings?
- or 1 being all three?
and god as one the trinity each one of them the father the son and the holy spirit are Equal in authority they all have the same authority
god does not have a literar appearance god is one can not be divided the throne of god is a representation of his authority
If you were to be in heaven right now, who would you see sitting on the throne? Would you see God the father sitting on His throne, with Jesus on His right hand side? Or would you see Jesus sitting on the throne?
the Doctrine of the Trinity is the greatest of all mysteries in the Catholic faith. since it's a mystery it can't be explained fully, or understood by humans on earth. From the beginning of the Church Saints and everyone have tried to understand and explain the Trinity, yet it is impossible.
we can, however, make imperfect comparisons and refute objections brought against the Trinity.
the best comparison ive fount is: water, steam, and ice are all in different forms, yet the same substance.
yes nothing can be similar
Yes, but is there anything that can accurately describe the entirety of the trinity? We can only get close.
well jesus used parables as well to explain complex things for his disciples
Dont try to refute the descriptions--we have no equivalence in out world to compare it to.
iam not talking about matter iam talking about your sense of taste and in christianity god can not be split he is one three components form one god that you can not tell apart
well no body is splitting we are calling it god but we also know the components of god
Read the Bible. If you did, you'd see it
chicken soup analogy doesn't work as you need to believe that:
- the water = 100% chicken soup
- the chicken = 100% chicken soup
- the salt = 100% chicken soup.
Do you believe the above to be true?
Or do you believe each of the above constitutes a 1/3rd of the 100% chicken soup?
so why not just call it chicken soup? why split it? why not just call it god?
christians believe in one god but this god is the trinity the father the son and the holy spirit and you can not separate the three components of the trinity for they are one
let me give you an example if you chicken soup you have three components salt chicken and water each of these components gives the chicken soup it's taste chicken gives it the taste of chicken salt makes it salty and water makes it more fluidy so each plays it's role to give the soup it's taste and you can not separate them apart for they are all now collectively called chicken soup
it is the same for the trinity it one you can not divide the trinity it is one but each of them has his specific job the father created the world through the son the son redeemed us on the cross the holy spirit is what continues the work in our hearts today thus it finishes the job of salvation after crucifixion
I reject the concept of the trinity, but I would like someone who believes in the trinity to explain their belief in it to me, the reasons for their belief, along with any supporting information.
wth is the holy ghost