The debate "Christianity is the best thing that ever happened." was started by
November 14, 2018, 11:28 am.
27 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 68 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
jrardin12 posted 16 arguments to the agreers part.
Nemiroff posted 12 arguments, Brynn posted 8 arguments, Debater23 posted 1 argument, TheExistentialist posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
jrardin12, P627, PansectionalPurity, Dushonjj2, davidjohnson1953, wilsoergel76 and 21 visitors agree.
Brynn, LaurentiuRomania, Emihle, serinahannah, Nemiroff, Kanwal, rohanpamnani, Debater23, TheExistentialist, TJ, Coriander, Hardikgreat, WiseWords, SMNR, InfinityMachine and 53 visitors disagree.
Again what is the kind of slavery you imagine in the Bible?
This is absolute nonsense. The notion of "true Christians" is an absurd way of distancing oneself from the actions of others who practice the same faith. Would you consider fundamentalist Muslims not practitioners of Islam? Would you consider those Hindus that violently enforce the cast system not Hindus? Why then should we not consider those christians that partook in the crusades, the inquisition, the burning of witches, etc... not Christians? By what standard are you excluding them and by what authority are you the one who gets to decide "true'' vs ''false'' Christian?
Tell that to the Native Americans, The people killed in the crusades, the slaves, and the rest poorly influenced by it. It's like any other religion, which is to say: not much better than another one.
There are literal passages telling you how to whip your slaves and that it's okay to whip them as long as you don't kill them.
What is your idea of the slavery talked about in the Bible?
Slavery is not contradicted in the Bible. It's front and center as something it tells you how to do. If slavery we're soooooo contradicted in the Bible why isn't it one of the commandments? or a sin? It's not. It's neither of those things. Your god thought not worshipping another god was more important than not owning another human being. Think about that for a second please.
No, the true Christians did not commit mass murders. As for the issue of slavery, their were Christians who defended it, but that belief contradicts the Bible.
Also, how is it that you believe that the vast majority of Christians who held bad beliefs are "not true Christians".... but atheists are all guilty for the crimes of a few idiots? double standard?
And jradin? Who cares? Darwin isn't the authority of all things. He didn't get everything right. He made mistakes... He isn't the authority of science or atheists
africans and Australians are closer then Europeans to apes as both africans and Australians are human...
which book is this from? can you provide a link?
also, I think we are missing the fact that the belittlement of blacks was mostly defended using the bible and not darwin. I agree with you that they were crazy but darwin had nothing to do with it.
also darwin was the first person to suggest that species might change, the modern theory of evolution is not Darwin's any more than the modern theory of gravity is just Galileo dropping things off a tower. Darwin theorized things must change but we have come a long way since then
Darwin suggests that the break between "man and his nearest allies" will be widened through the extinction of the great apes, leaving a gap between the more civilised man "and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla". No doubt about it: he regards Africans and Australians as closer than Europeans to the apes. This, he implies, is a natural condition that will frustrate any cultural efforts to mitigate it.
once again, the book wasnt written today. definitions changed in over 150 years. he wasnt talking about races.
Finches are not a race.
but he wasn't writing that book today, did he mention human races even once in his book?
why are you sure about that? are you just guessing? he was talking about finches (birds). are you confusing finches with people?
being black is certainly an evolutionary advantage in the direct sunlight of the equator while white is an evolutionary advantage in the indirect sunlight of the north. none of that refers to any other aspects of superiority. his theory holds up and has nothing to do with other features like intelligence.
I am sure Black people were at the top and whites at the bottom in his mind.
You try writing a book today named The Preservation of the Favored Races and see where it gets you.
also please Google "no true scotsman". please.
can you quote Darwin saying blacks are lower?
or are you making that up?
Exactly, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses are not Christian.
The Christians who believed in Blacks as a lower species got their ideas from Erasmus Darwin and his grandson Charles and other skeptics and God deniers who popularized evolution of man.
so Catholics are not Christian's, eastern orthodox are not Christian, and now most protestants of post reformation aren't christians.... are you the only Christian? lol
Google "no true scotsman" it's a logical fallacy that you seem to worship more than God himself.
btw, the ones claiming blacks were subhuman were not the atheists, they were Christians and the bible was their primary proof.
No it is not, it is saying how to creating a slave. Slavery in Bible times was universally practiced by everyone from the Egyptians to the Babylonians, to the Assyrians, to the Hitites, to the Greeks and to the Mayans. Slavery was a way of life. The difference is that slavery in Israel was different. The slaves in Israel were not bought and sold at markets, but it was comprised of people who were it debt who gave themselves as slaves to work off their debts. They would then be released either after the debt was paid or when the year of jubilee arrived.
Also atheists only share one belief completely and that is their lack of belief in a deity or deities.
The Bible telling you how to treat slaves is endorsing slavery... you do realize that right? Telling you it's okay to whip them as much as you want as long as you don't kill them is endorsing that behavior and that behavior includes the slavery.
There were actually many atheists and uniformitarians in the 17 and 1800s including Erasmus Darwin who began popularizing evolution.
The Bible only says how to treat slaves. Slavery back then was by choice. The slavery practiced by Europeans was forbidden in Deuteronomy and Timothy. Christians today are not like the Christians of just 120 years ago. They are very hypocritical, but Christianity could make a comeback if Christians would get serious.
jradin Christians who supported slavery absolutely we're following Christian principles. The Bible has explicit passages telling people how to have slaves... and how to treat them. Atheists did very little during the civil watch because there were so little of them. Also can I ask why it would matter if Christianity was the best thing that ever happened? Even if it was the best in the past it sure is not the best now.
Were their Christians that defended slavery? Yes, but they were not following Christian principles. The Anglicans or Episcopalians were the main slave owners. However, the Protestant denominations were overwhelming abolitionists. I don't recall atheists spearheading abolition though. They were to busy writing about how Blacks were the lower rung in the evolution of man. A thought common in the South at the time until the 1960s.
jradin... are you suggesting Christianity didn't endorse slavery, killing of innocent people, or anything that makes people uncomfortable?
The Reformation is what brought freedom of conscious, which brought freedom of expression, which brought freedom of science
The enlightenment had many Christians spearheading the movement. Yes, the Egyptians and Greeks and Romans had great civilizations, but they were not civilized in the least. Human sacrifice, slavery and the Arena doesn't sound comfortable.
the enlightenment had more to do with discovering ancient Greek texts and ideas then christianity. what is the connection you are assuming?
regardless your claim that christianity brought civilization is still false. before the dark ages were many glory days, most of which were before christ. the Greeks, the Roman's, the Egyptians, the chinese....
your whole argument is a no true scotsman fallacy.
I knew most people would confuse Catholicism with Christians. However, Catholicism has never been a follower of Christ. However, since the Reformation, science, equality and virtue have prospered. Because true science comes from God. Even before the Reformation, many groups of Christians who defied the church had higher literacy rates than the Catholic people.
modesty is a virtue
self righteousness is a sin
I do not blame Christianity for the dark ages, rather greedy leaders and sheepish followers. but what threw off the shackles of the dark ages was a return of critical thought, the scientific method, and a resurgence of ancient Greek philosophy that was preserved by Islamic thinkers from the bonfires of those greedy christian leaders.
I do not think those Christian leaders were good Christians and were actually a betrayal of Christ's actual message and intentions. however that was done in the name of christ, and I dont think the modern Christian leadership is living up to that message either. small local churches may be different, but tolerant is not the word I would use for national and world Christian political leaders.
your original statement is proof. have you even learned of the contributions of other cultures? was the Greek, Roman, and chinese cultures that came millenia before christ not civilized? have you even heard of the Islamic golden age? your sense of history sounds so edited and falsified, much like the christianity of the dark ages.
Right... made people live better lives by denouncing slavery and sexism. It gave us the answers for modern medicine and agriculture. It never killed anyone like the crusades. Really improved lives.
you do know that the dark ages were only dark in Europe and christianity was there from before the dark ages and throughout the entire dark period?
christianity is what caused the dark ages.
during the Christian dark ages, Islam was going through a golden age and china beyond prosperous
It is what civilized the world. Made people live better lives. It also threw off the shackles of the Dark Ages bringing the enlightenment.