The debate "Christians have become puppets to the political parties" was started by
June 18, 2017, 12:17 pm.
5 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 2 people are on the disagree side.
There needs to be more votes to see what the common perception is.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
neveralone posted 22 arguments, thereal posted 11 arguments, Nemiroff posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
Nemiroff posted 3 arguments to the disagreers part.
thereal, neveralone and 3 visitors agree.
2 visitors disagree.
I'll try to listen to it when I can.
in the interview he clears that up to say they are lost in the culture war, at least that's the way it came across. if anything the comments section hints at the message in the interview.
I wasn't able to load up the audio but from reading the description I wouldn't say we loss but we are definitely out of touch.
this interview with rod dreher may be referring to the same thing you are regarding Christianity and politics in America. that it is just using you. at least that's this guys opinion. didn't hear the whole thing but it reminded me of what you were saying.
in that case I'll see where thereal takes this from here... assuming it makes some form of sense.
not that I have seen. stoning was mostly seen in old testament.
And does the new testament actually prescribe stoning for any offenses? Because if so, the NT is in stark contrast to the message and spirit of Christ reinforcing my belief that the text itself is corrupted nonsense and should be treated with a grain of salt.
no. he actually was against it. the saying those who have not sinned cast the first stone came from him.
these are certainly better things but much of it I'd the punishment not the "crime".
did Jesus actually proclaim stoning is good? doesn't sound like the guy.
The church has changed since Jesus. Look at the persecution of those claiming the earth orbits the sun. It took place long after Jesus. Does the church still attack scientists? Of course not.
When is the last time the church burned someone alive? That development came since Jesus as well. The church is just like any other group of people. It changes and grows.
I in no way mean this to be an attack on the church. Humans are fallible and we learn from our mistakes. As we learn, we grow as a society, the church included. The church is already halfway to accepting evolution, which many thought would never happen. I certainly don't consider it a bad thing that the church doesn't kill people.
it's not. there are better ways but we ignore them. it isn't right.
the church has changed before. but that took Jesus. now if there seems to be some kind of intervention on God's part that says something different then we have to assume it's the same.
So now Christians lash out at gay people to try to change them. How is doing bad things to try to help them now any different?
Christians used to stone people, but now know that this brutal punishment is wrong. Christians used to burn heretics alive, but again, they have learned better. Christians used to condemn interracial marriages as immoral, now they do not. Christians used to consider claims that the Earth orbits the sun sacrilege, now it is common sense. Eventually both evolution and gay marriage will be accepted. The tide is too firmly against the church. It will either adapt with the time or it will find itself irrelevant as more and more people drift away.
Morals and ethics change with society. That isn't a bad thing. The world changes, and we need to change with it.
what christians did then wasn't good. we aren't perfect. there is no standard for it. they did bad to try and help people. that wasn't the way to handle it.
ok, let me see if I can get this straight. Christmas started out being about sex and drunkenness. over time that changed and that is good.
Christians used to think homosexuality was evil. now that is changing and that is bad?
do you just arbitrarily decide when change is good and when it is bad? does the complete hypocrisy of what you are saying not even phase you?
how something starts and how it is are two different things. I bet Halloween didn't start with kids going around asking for candy in costumes but I don't see anyone saying that is wrong.
also, Jesus was not born in December. early Christians moved his birthday to try to take over the festival of Saturnalia. as a result of this Christmas was celebrated pretty much the same way as Saturnalia had been. that is to say by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.
so you're wrong if you think drinking and sex is somehow against Christmas. that is how Christmas started.
and yet u still prove my point.
"you think Jesus would want you to get drunk and fornicate (as well as commit other act deemed worthy of capital punishment in the Bible) on CHRISTMAS!" I never said that.
ur insults are pathetic. what a sad life u must have that u come here to fail at insulting people so that u can feel better. I pity u.
"if all you can do is fail to insult people...ur source for once is correct" well if i provided a correct source, then insulting people isnt the only thing i cam do is it? is it, you moron? your own statement contradicted you, you dumbf***wad. You didnt believe me when i stated it and didnt even bother to research the facts because youre so arrogant and stupid.
"just feeling what God wants" well thats exactly what you do as well, you imbecile, when for some bizarre reason you think Jesus would want you to get drunk and fornicate (as well as commit other act deemed worthy of capital punishment in the Bible) on CHRISTMAS! Do you, in your retardation, even understand what an insult that would be to Jesus? Think about that for a second. On the day of his birth, you celebrate by committing all the acts that he was against and putting up a christmas tree and mistle toe, which are all PAGAN traditions! The irony is just humiliating for the Christian community. Not once did you think "hmmm...maybe all this bullshit is from the corruption of the church and the sims committed on Christmas are actually products of satans influence. hmm...maybe if jesus were here, he would want us to celebrate his birthday by reading the bible and remembering god at church." What a shame the Christian community truly is.
this just sad. dude if all u can do is fail to insult people then ur on the wrong app. stop acting like a toddler and grow up.
now ur source for once is correct and actually quite sad since the bible.specifically Leviticus, is agaisnt it. this shows lack of reading and following and more just "feeling" what God wants. which ends up what Satan wants.
neveralone, i dont give a shit what your opinion is, the facts are the facts and they speak for themselves. they dont need some coward pussy "Christian" to speak for them.
I'm meaning people whose religion disagrees with it. not all of America.
no. it's well known that the majority of Americans support same sex marriage.
I highly doubt that. would u actually put a link to where u found this info since it's well known that most people oppose same sex marriage because of religious beliefs.
Yes, neveralone, i know God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah thats why i told you about it. And yes, i know most Christians are opposed to homosexuality, but are most american Christians opposed to it? nope.
Well yes, it's called pandering, they blame democrats for that all the time... but to be honest, can someone explain how someone is supposed to represent you without pandering to You? it's just a more extreme, demonized way of saying the same thing.
The only conflict I see between the left and Christianity is abortion, and the left doesn't even say pro abortion, they say pro choice. it's obviously not a pretty process and no one wants to promote its use (just it's option). We also understand that it's never an easy choice. but it might sometimes be the right choice, whether for personal reasons (especially if it's very early) or medical ones. it's seen as a decision that a woman must reach with her doctor and rather than saying it's somehow a good thing, they choose to stay out of the decision. either way, one need not stick to the party line exactly, despite what people on both sides will say. just like some republicans really don't care about gays.
Besides abortion I see nothing. any other move labeled as anti Christian is presented as anti religion in government and is applied equally to all faiths. likewise, the ability to worship without persecution for all faiths is protected predominantly by the left (not to paint everyone into the same box)
God actually destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. and most Christians are against homosexuality.
Greed isnt the only thing wrong with Christians today. Everything is. And ine of the main things is that theyre afraid to accept the word of their book.
well if you want to get right with God, YOU NEED TO DO AS HE SAYS, DONT YOU? Give to charity etc but justice is justice. Jesus destroyed 2 entire cities in the old testament over sodomy. 2 WHOLE CITIES. So how do you think he would feel if he came back tomorrow and found that you all supported homosexuality in America even though the bible deems it as a capital punishment? How ashamed of you would he feel if he came down and found that christians like you use "homophobe" as an insult when your own bible says homosexuality is bad? Think.
no my friend u have gone against such scriptures if u think that is truly the way.
we are an insult to Jesus but not for that reason. we have become greedy and self serving. we keep casting stones instead of holding out our hands. we have stopped helping those in need and instead help ourselves to what we want. we stopped casting out demons and healing others. Jesus is embarrassed with the church today and that's why I and others are trying to change all this so that we can get right with God.
The reality, neveralone, is that stoning was practiced for milleniums and nobody thought it was barbaric. Why? simply because the only reason you think that it IS barbaric is because the society that you were raised in teaches that it is and you are willing to lie to yourself about your religious scriptures in order to abide by that belief. What that shows is that you value the law of man more than what you believe is the law of God. Jesus would be ashamed of you indeed.
u seem to have a clear misunderstanding of all of the Bible. have u been to a church or opened a Bible? this isn't an insult I truly am asking if u have because u seem to have a diesiesed idea of it.
God gave such rules to create order and to advance the society until it needed to change. which is where Jesus came in.
And frankly if im honest, Jesus would be ashamed of you guys. Totally ashamed. If Jesus came down tomorrow and instructed that stoning should be reinstated, you would all curse at him, calling him a barbaric MOSLEM till the poor guy has to go back to heaven!
have u heard of the time they took out a prostitute to stone and Jesus was there and they asked him what they should do and prepared to stone her? u know what happened? Jesus picked up a stone and went to each person saying those who have not sinned may cast the first stone. everyone left. so yes Jesus was against stoning.
But yes, what an excellent proposition you made, neveralone. Lets have a Christian political party in the USA when nobody in the usa actually knows anything about Christianity in the first place and thise who do know about it blatantly REFUSE to follow it because it scares them and so they make up lies to themselves about how Jesus was against this, jesus was against that, when in reality it was presumably jesus who created those laws in the first place in the old testament and said nothing to really reverse them in the new testament. And if he did reverse them, it would be much more catastrophic for christianity as a whole because it shows hes not omnipresent and thus cannot be god. So you have 2 choices, start stoning bitches, or admit that jesus cannot be god and renounce christianity as a faith altogether. choose your poison.
No, neveralone, it doesnt say Christians are against stoning. And no, Jesus wasnt against against stoning because Jesus is God (remember?) and he instructed stoning of adulters, fornicaters etc in the old testament. Unless youre making the absurd claim that God for some reason changed his mind because he realised stoning didnt work (which means youre implying thats hes not omniscient after all) or the even more absurd accusation that Jesus was not God after all, which destroys the whole idea of Christianity all together and would thus make you a Muslim!
the puppet analogy was about how the Republican party uses us for votes and only takes our side for our numbers. in short we are being played. but the other side is agaisnt our principals. thus we are stuck because there is no one who truly has our side.
it's says we're against it. the punishment was the society's way of dealing with it until Jesus who was against it.
i didn't mean I did offend u. I was asking that to find out why u keep trying to insult people
I don't see the puppet analogy. far too many people like to think on conspiracy theories and believe the top chain of command has it all together instead of them being a bunch of divided people chasing different interests and priorities... just like the rest of us, only bigger, and more comfortable.
I do feel the Republican party is corrupt at the top, but why not work to fix that and vote the corruption out. 3rd parties are useless. primaries are the way our system shifts ideals. I learned that after this election. any other time a 3rd party ran, the completely opposite, united, party won.
here's a good place to start. any politician voting against campaign finance reform, for money = speech, and against their own oversight (like much of the Republican controlled house as their first act under the new prez) kick them out.
Well sure you dont stone anyone anymore, but the bible sure says that you should so if you want a CHRISTIAN political party, you best get your secular a** out of your little bubble and start propagating CHRISTIAN beliefs.
Regarding your second blunt, what do you mean? when did i say you offended me?
a) we don't stone anyone anymore. that was a society and time that was more brutal but we certainly wish people to respect what marriage really is.
b) how have I or anyone else offended u? u always attack ur opponents as if they have killed ur family. as far as I know I have done nothing towards u.
Thats actually the truest thing you, as a piece of shit, have ever said.
Imagine that. A Christian political party which opposes abortion, same sex marriage, condones stoning for adultery, gives to charity, and doesnt hate immigrants. What a day that would be indeed.
this is a big reason why I want a party controlled by us. because we are in a rock and a hard place. either we choose to let go of God's commandments and condone what we feel isn't right or keep them and go with a party that will only use us for our numbers and never actually help.