The debate "Christians should try reading the bible on christmas instead of doing the very things it is against" was started by
March 19, 2017, 6:24 pm.
16 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 5 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
thereal posted 4 arguments to the agreers part.
historybuff posted 2 arguments, neveralone posted 3 arguments to the disagreers part.
thereal, qeteut13, ProfDoke, EthanTReilly, makson and 11 visitors agree.
neveralone, historybuff, Mr_Beuller and 2 visitors disagree.
there isn't a reason to do so. some do and that's fine some don't and that's fine. but as far as I know the majority of Christians are not doing anything agaisnt the Bible or what we beleive we should do on Christmas.
well, getting back to the debate topic. Christmas' origins weren't about reading the Bible and that isn't what it is about today. why would we want to change it into something it isn't?
you guys are arguing past each other.
neveralone believes christ is the way to salvation. therefore he sees the accommodations made to bring pagans into the light as a necessary evil to save the souls of these misguided individuals, much like the Pope extended a hand of tolerance to gays recently.
historybuff sees both faiths as equally fraudulent and only sees hypocrisy.
until the two of you recognize that you aren't even talking about the same reality, you'll be going back and forth repeating those same points ad naseum.
saving them from what? they had a religion, Christians coerced them into a new religion. there isn't anything noble or charitable about that.
they used lies, alcohol and sex to do that. basically they broke the rules of their own religion to try to get people to join their religion.
saving people isn't good? teaching about God isn't? we didn't force them to change. we offered a path and they took it
it helped convert the masses from one cult to another. there is nothing noble or just in that. they wanted to convert people and took the most expedient method they could. the fact that this required lies didn't deter them.
lame excuse? it helped people come closer to God. something I wouldn't call lame.as for the spirit of the holiday when the holiday was setup did it not become it's own as well? and are we not able to evaluate our own holidays?
we were willing to do as such when people were willing to listen. I'm guessing ur cake thing is about refusing to serve gay couples. this is a complex subject. we don't agree with such a view. when I think about how the refuser thought I would guess he felt like he was being forced to give up his beliefs. but I also think of the couple who didn't want the fuss. personally if I was said couple I would of course just gone somewhere else. then it would be done. but then we have the media who blow things out of proportion and cause a ruckus that people see and beleive which in turn causes more problems. but back to what u said. if u want people of any faith or lack to compromise then u have to as well.
saying Christ was born on December 25th was just a lame excuse for why their holiday made any sense. the spirit of the holiday was a big drunken holiday. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be that way now.
haha. I would say it served 2-fold. to celebrate the birth and to help people understand him.
it's certainly isn't like that now though. if it even was like that for the people who weren't trying to convert.
it's amazing how much more open to compromise Christians were when they were the minority then they are now.
now many voices amongst them want to use technicalities to discriminate against people over a stupid cake.
yeah Christmas is an interesting holiday. the whole reason they created it was to try to convert pagans. they told them that if they converted to Christianity they could keep celebrating the way they had before. I guess they were more interested in converting people because that meant that Christmas simply became a slightly tamer version of Saturnalia.
so it is accurate to say that Christmas was originally celebrated with drunkenness?, sex and naked singing in the streets. that's actually where caroling started. sounds much more interesting than reading the Bible.
I wasn't saying it wasn't relevant. I just figured that isn't what the real is talking about. which is shown by his last statement.
haha that's crazy. not saying it ain't true but I bet no Catholic will tell u that.
yes it has.again yes. I simply stating what it is to Christians. if getting drunk and having sex are the only things fun for u then I would ask u to broaden what u do for fun. we still have parties. we just don't get drunk and have sex with everyone. though I'm sure married couples probably do.
Jesus was not born in December. they moved his birthday to take over Saturnalia. so discussing it is very relevant.
many of the aspects of Saturnalia made their way into Christmas celebration. getting drunk and singing naked was how Christmas was originally celebrated. I mean the Pope once raced naked Jews through the streets of Rome at Christmas in 1466.
Christmas has always been a celebration. it has always been a party. you want to charge Christmas into something that it has never been. and why would anyone want to take the fun out of a festival?
we do not get drunk. people get drunk but that doesn't make them Christian. they might have sex with their husband/wife but not with anyone else, buying something for ur kid doesn't make u greedy. that's like saying breathing makes u greedy since someone else could use that air. we read it all the time. it is part of our guidance to God.
As for the idiot referring to Saturnalia, noone gives a shit about a festival that hasnt been celebrated for the last 17 centuries lmfao. On top of that, Christmas and Saturnalia werent even in the same day! Christmas is the day that Christians use to celebrate the birth of Jesus and the best way to do that would be to study the Bible, as opposed to being a goatf***er and doing everything he was against.
He never said it and when I asked he decided to insult and deflect so I assumed he wanted to troll.
Ok neveralone, forgive me for overestimating your...ability. The Bible says dont get drunk, dont adulter, dont be greedy and so on yet those are the exact things that people do on Christmas. They get drunk at clubs, they fornicate, and they waste money on materialistic things. All the the things that the Bible and Jesus were against. It would make sense for Christians to actually use Christmas (seeing as they dont use any other day) to actually read and understand the Bible. It seems that the only people who actually have this common sense on how to celebrate religious festivals are muslims and some strict orthodox Jews. Its a shame that some people are too stupid to see that.
"I'm going to just sum up that u are just wanting to troll."
but you did know, it was all right there in that line.
no I dont. I'm simply asked him to provide evidence that Christians are doing something agaisnt the Bible like he believes.
you knew exactly what he was talking about since you made the post I'm replying to.
my post was to the real. I know what u r talking about but I'm not sure what he is so I have not put an opinion till he makes sense.
evidence for which part exactly? since it is all fairly well established fact I'm not certain what you are questioning.
I'm going to just sum up that u are just wanting to troll. either provide evidence or admit ur wrong
if you want to actually debate this topic then you need to lay out specifically what you are debating. just insulting people for asking you questions isn't a debate.
and since Christ was born in the summer and Christmas was made up later to take over the pagan festival of Saturnalia, it is an entirely artificial celebration anyway. it's not like the Bible says how to celibate a holiday they hadn't invented yet.
add to this the fact that drinking, sex and singing naked in the street was how Christmas was originally celebrated and your argument kind of loses any meaning.
Im going to pretend youre not that stupid and just ignore the question.
what things do u beleive we do that is agaisnt the Bible?
its basic english. if you dont understand it, im not going to bother responding to your "how so?" comment.