Christmas is not a pagan holiday Quit ising that as an excuse is a religous holiday

December 6, 2016, 4:58 pm

Agree5 Disagree11

31%
69%

The debate "Christmas is not a pagan holiday Quit ising that as an excuse is a religous holiday" was started by XenoBoy on December 6, 2016, 4:58 pm. 5 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 11 people are on the disagree side. People are starting to choose their side. It looks like most people are against to this statement.

dalton7532 posted 1 argument, XenoBoy posted 2 arguments to the agreers part.
PsychDave posted 8 arguments, historybuff posted 2 arguments to the disagreers part.

XenoBoy, dalton7532, Kawaii88, human and 1 visitor agree.
PsychDave, Apollo, historybuff, thereal, ProfDoke and 6 visitors disagree.

neveralone
replied to...

destruction isn't the word I'd used. it was a peaceful transaction. they chose to switch. they were not forced

2 years, 2 months ago

I don't disagree with that. they wanted an easy transition from the existing culture to the ones Christians wanted them to have. this resulted in the destruction of their culture. I'm glad we agree.

2 years, 2 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

I disagree. I think the r misinterpreting their intent. in ur mind they wanted to destroy a culture but in reality they wanted to make an easier transaction from that one to theirs.

2 years, 2 months ago

the despicable reasons behind Christmas aren't really relevant. the point is that Saturnalia long predated Christianity and Christ's birth was moved to December to try to "Christianize" a holiday that had nothing to do with Christianity.

the two are therefore intrinsically linked. saying Christmas is s solely Christian holiday is a lie.

2 years, 2 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

I agree. If people want to to say Marry Christmas, feel free. If they want to say happy holidays, great.

2 years, 2 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

that's stupid. let them say happy holidays if they want. though it doesn't seem to sound right.

2 years, 2 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

This is the one that's been in the news for a few years.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/11/09/christians-attack-starbucks-removing-christmas-images-red-holiday-cups

2 years, 2 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

Really? You haven't seen any of the backlash against retailers for saying happy holidays? You didn't see the people fly off the handle over Starbucks changing their cups? If so, that's fine I just am surprised.

Basically there is a group of people up in arms over the use of "happy holidays" instead of Merry Christmas. A quick search will show more examples, but that would get pretty long.

2 years, 2 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

I am unaware about what u r talking about psych.

2 years, 2 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

haha lot of aggressive words their don't u think? let's break this down to what happened though. Christians were living with another group of people. they were trying to decide when to celebrate Jesus's birth. there neighbors were having a holiday. we want people to know God. we make our holiday the same day as there's. noone was forced into either faith. this doesn't sound like destroying a culture at all to me.

2 years, 2 months ago

Many Christians are aware of how holidays can be twisted and are fighting against the "war on Christmas". Look at the backlash against businesses saying happy holidays. By your argument, they shouldn't be since it is a separate holiday.

2 years, 2 months ago

you think trying to coerce people into abandoning their faith and joining yours is fine? you think stealing the customs and holidays and twisting them into your faith in an attempt to destroy their culture is s good thing?

2 years, 2 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

we let them choose not force. it's despicable to try to help people? or to compromise? or to coexist with another society? yeah ur right these things r real despicable

2 years, 2 months ago

so you are alright with stealing and destroying another culture to try to force them into your religion? do you have any idea how despicable that is?

2 years, 2 months ago

they did it to help them get used to the idea of God. I think u have the right idea in ur last sentence just the wrong verb

2 years, 2 months ago

I draw your attention back to my previous example. making up a holiday and putting on the same day as theirs, and stealing a bunch of the aspects of their holiday is co opting their holiday. and they did it in an attempt to convert them and destroy their religion because they felt Christianity was superior.

2 years, 2 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

haha funny how u think that. how is making our celebration coexist with there's and doing some of their traditions twisting their religion?

2 years, 2 months ago

no, you brought your God to them. you stole their holiday and twisted it to try to force your religion on them. that isn't noble, you tried to destroy their religion and their culture.

2 years, 2 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

we gave a chance for others to come to God

2 years, 2 months ago

my point is that Christmas was founded on the principles of Saturnalia in the same way my Xmas example is directly taking what modern Christmas has become.

you put your holiday on the same day and co opt huge chunks of the holiday and expect people to treat it as unique and unconnected.

2 years, 2 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

technically that isn't what Christmas is about. it's just coming together remembering our Lord. all that stuff is corporation seeing opportunity

2 years, 2 months ago

alright. let's say I start a holiday on December 25th called Xmas. we worship consumerism by buying presents, putting trees in our houses and decorating them and a fat man in a red suit gives out presents. but it's not Christmas, it's Xmas. there's no Christ involved.

is this a completely different holiday? if you put a holiday on the same day and co opt many aspects if the existing holiday, you don't get to say it is completely different and separate.

2 years, 2 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

again man there's dif. holidays almost every day it's not that surprising to have two holidays on the same day

2 years, 2 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

They have two different purposes but they are the same day, therefore they are the same holiday. People are not wrong to claim that it is a pagan holiday. You are wrong if you are claiming it is Jesus birthday, which many Christians do. I don't actually care what anyone else celebrates, I just disagree with the topic because it is and was a pagan holiday first. To cry foul that people are changing the meaning of Christmas is hypocrisy since that is literally what Christmas was built on.

2 years, 2 months ago

they co opted Saturnalia to attempt to convert the pagans. it is not a separate holiday.

2 years, 2 months ago

Christmas is not a pagan holiday. The holiday Saturnalia is.

2 years, 2 months ago

They created a seperate holiday on a pagan holiday, and adopted some of its traditions.

However, you admitted it yourself. They are two different holidays. Therefore, they have two different purposes.

2 years, 2 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

which do u think would be more important? the exact day of his birth or the actual birth itself?

2 years, 2 months ago
RogueAmerican
replied to...

No, but I do his

2 years, 2 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

Do you celebrate your birthday on the day you were born or sometime months later? Why do you think Jesus real birthday is irrelevant to when you celebrate his birthday?

2 years, 2 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

Do a bit of research. There was a pagan holiday. Christian leaders decided to celebrate Christmas then to promote conversion. They litteraly co-opted the holiday. You cannot then claim it is a Christian holiday and not a pagan one.

2 years, 2 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

ok who cares when Jesus was born? it's celebrating it that matters. so what if it goes along with another holiday. I bet u will find a holiday for almost every day of the year.

2 years, 2 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

Christmas was originally a page holiday that was co-opted. It is now a Christian holiday. To start the topic by stating that it is not a pagan holiday is factually incorrect. It was a pagan holiday first. You deny people the ability to remove the religious factor from it, but by that same logic you cannot remove the pagan factor from it. Either it remains a pagan holiday first and Christian second, or people are free to change the meaning and remove the religious aspect. You cannot claim your religious beliefs are immutable but the preexisting beliefs are not.

2 years, 2 months ago

I'm not saying it isn't a Christian holiday. it certainly is. but you cannot deny that the holiday was stolen from pagans. the author of this debate wasn't totally clear on the topic.

2 years, 2 months ago

I hear many people say Christmas is not a religious holiday, which is factually incorrect. By definition, "he annual Christian festival celebrating Christ's birth, held on December 25 in the Western Church." it is.

Most people still want to celebrate Christmas, but want to take the religious factor out of it by citing the Pagan holiday "Saturnalia" It is quite simple, if you are celebrating Christmas, you are celebrating a religious holiday. If you do not like religion, don't celebrate Christmas. Call it Saturnalia or whatever.

2 years, 2 months ago

I don't understand what this topic is about. Jesus was born in the summer. December 25th is a pagan holiday co opted by Christians.

2 years, 2 months ago
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