Democracy not the best form of government

September 12, 2019, 10:27 am

Agree42 Disagree44

49%
51%

The debate "Democracy not the best form of government" was started by Aiyaz on September 12, 2019, 10:27 am. 42 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 44 people are on the disagree side. That might be enough to see the common perception. It looks like most people are against to this statement.

Batman posted 2 arguments to the agreers part.


Aiyaz, Batman, lolopopo, Lind and 38 visitors agree.
Ambassador_Chess, codyray16, Anabelle_Granger, YEET, Nemiroff, Nikhilsoni, Shrivali_16, benedict and 36 visitors disagree.

nothing is really the best form of government.

4 days, 17 hours ago

well, once a democrat becomes president and brett kavanaugh gets removed from the bench for lying under oath, then you have a supreme court that might be willing to overrule that.

3 weeks, 3 days ago
Allirix
replied to...

IIRC donations for campaign advertising are legally seen as forms of 'free speech' so it'd be difficult to change that.

3 weeks, 3 days ago

I see your point. But if you are limited to getting money from individuals and the government controlled the amount that each individual had control of, we could effectively cap political spending. So you wouldn't have enough money to run attack adds in every state.

Additionally, that doesn't need to be the only change to elections. You could also add requirements to get on the ballot paper. For example requiring all candidates to fully describe in writing their positions on specific issues.

3 weeks, 3 days ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

i think your terms and limits might be good, but i think a better solution needs to be found for campaign funding.
perpetual funding metropolitan and nationwide ad coverage is insanely costly for now reason. especially when the ads themselves are often not helpful. 45 seconds isnt enough for a policy, but its plenty of time for an attack.

instead we should find a way to replace ads as the primary source of voter information.

3 weeks, 3 days ago

no one is saying abandon democracy in practice, but it is inferior in ideal terms. it will never be as swift or decisive as a singular will. assuming you get someone like the fabled solomon, or maybe king arthur (short on actual details on both tbh), it is the ideal government.

realistically speaking ill take slow and chaotic democracy any day, dont get me wrong.

3 weeks, 3 days ago

I also think it is critically important to change how politics is financed. It costs millions and millions to run for office. This means politicians spend a large percentage of their time pandering for money from people. This makes them reliant on rich and powerful people to fund their campaigns which also stifles progress and keeps politicians from doing what is actually in their constituents best interest. I think a plan something like what Andrew Yan suggested should be implemented. All political contributions by companies and private individuals should be illegal. Instead, the government would provide an amount of money to each citizen which they can give to whatever politician they want. It would not be possible to spend this on anything else, they can only use this money for a political contribution. This would mean that all political funding would be coming from constituents and not billionaires. It would prevent a tiny part of the electorate (the ultra wealthy) from controlling all the political influence. It would mean that only those politicians who have real political support would be able to fund their campaigns. You would see considerably less fringe candidates as they are almost entirely funded by rich assholes and don't actually have much real support.

It would free up politicians from having to make constant fund raising calls and throwing fundraising parties to try to make sure they have the money to win their next election. Some stats I have seen say that most members of congress spend at least half their time fundraising. That is at least half the time they should be spending trying to represent their constituents wasted on trying to get the money to protect their own job. This would allow them to refocus their time on actually doing their job as there is no point doing calls and throwing parties as they can't give them large sums of money.

3 weeks, 4 days ago

I think it would be better to try to iron out some of the issues with democracy rather than try to replace it with another form.

I think having terms that are a bit longer, but strict term limits would be helpful. One of the main issues politicians have is the constant pandering to short term goals. If it takes, say 10 years, to complete a project then there is little incentive for politicians to make it a priority because they have to worry about the election a few years away. People don't rally behind stuff until they can see it and benefit from it. This causes politicians to constantly be looking for a short term win, even if it comes at the expense of longer term success. For example, it took years longer to build a light rail system in my city than it needed to because every election the new city council would mess with the plan and cause delays. They wanted to be the ones to design the LRT so they got the political win, but that just made things worse. Giving politicians a longer chance to try to make the changes they want would reduce the back and forth and hopefully give them more incentive to think longer term.

I'd also like to see firm limits to how long they can serve for. People serving in parliament for decades should not be allowed. Being the incumbent gives you some stability and it is hard to get them out if they want to stay. This stifles new ideas. It makes politicians want to make the "safe" choice because they want to keep winning elections so they just don't do very much. if they knew they only had so long to make the changes they wanted, hopefully it would motivate them to accomplish what they set out to do. It would also keep politicians anchored in the present and not in the past. The Democratic party has been stuck in a neo-liberal loop for decades because it is being run by people who have been there for decades. People like Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are super outdated in their thinking and completely out of touch with their constituents, but they continue to push for policies that do not resonate with anyone. Term limits would force them to get out of the way so people with ideas from this century can actually try to implement them.

3 weeks, 4 days ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

the benevolent dictator has one more issue you forgot to.mention, succession.

maybe an economoc dictator while the people, or a representative body, retain the military... just in case.

not really deeply thought through but this may be an excellent brainstorming opportunktu.

3 weeks, 4 days ago

It is inefficient, corrupt, unstable, oppresses minorities, elects confidence over competence, elects wealth over competence, polarises the population, favours marginal regions over definite regions, has short-term tunnel-vision, vulnerable to external manipulation by foreign governments or MNCs, caters to the false whims of the population, appeals to the lowest common denominator, is prone to mob rule, and oversimplifies complex issues.

Is it the best political ideology? Depends on your values.

3 weeks, 4 days ago

The best of all Governments would be a Benevolent Dictatorship. However, that is only the case if the leader is truly benevolent, well informed, has the resources to fix the problems he identifies, is free from corrupting influences, etc... In other words, it is an ideal that will never be reality.

If we are dealing in the real world, democracy is superior to other forms of government because it is the only system that is self correcting. It allows for corrupt leaders to be easily replaced; ineffective legislation to be replaced; etc.... It is arguable a little slow to respond to crisis, however, the trade off is well worth it.

3 weeks, 5 days ago

Democracy is certainly not the most efficient form of government. But what alternative is better?

Can you convince voters to support things that are bad for them? yes. But if you didn't have a democracy then the leaders would still do terrible things, they just wouldn't have to go to the trouble of hiding it. They would just go about their corruption and terrible policies without anyone else having a say.

Democracy is messy. it is loud and often has mixed or outright bad results. But history has proven that if you concentrate power in fewer hands, then those people will only look after themselves and everyone else suffers.

I am not aware of a better system. If you think you know of a better system, then by all means tell me what it is.

4 weeks ago
Batman
replied to...

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all others that have been tried from time to time..

4 weeks, 1 day ago

To know whether democracy works or not you have to talk to the average voter.

In democracy, the trees vote for the Axe because it's handle is made up of wood but the owners of the steel are profited..

4 weeks, 1 day ago
JDAWG9693
replied to...

I would argue that a constitutional republic coupled with capitalism is one of the best, if not the best, form of government and economy

1 month ago

That depends on your definition of best. It is certainly not the most efficient form of government. If democracy isn't the best, then what do you consider to be better?

1 month ago
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