The debate "Do we have any scientific evidences on religious beliefs Hell No." was started by
March 29, 2016, 10:42 am.
9 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 12 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
Sosocratese posted 6 arguments to the agreers part.
Alex posted 2 arguments, historybuff posted 5 arguments, Maximus posted 21 arguments to the disagreers part.
Anjali, danielle, ProudAmerican888, Upbeatethan, Sosocratese, openparachute and 3 visitors agree.
oscar90000, historybuff, ReadyToBegin, Maximus, ReedMurphy, ElisaXO, SwaggerPoptart and 5 visitors disagree.
Alex, I'm going to respond to this comment again since my post asking for your opinion on it is getting buried. I know we disagree on many subjects, including religion, so I am interested in your take on this.
that's poetic for a name steeling head case
Feeding the trolls has been linked to increased troll activity and increases the likelihood of human-troll interactions. For the safety and sanity of those around you, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS
That's nice. Could you shut up until Alex has a chance to respond?
Look, you have shown that you are such derilict that anything coming from me you detest. So I will NOT entertain your idiocy anymore.
you are airheaded, a very very lost person. It's sad and its very serious.
I think pretty much everything you wrote there is nonsense, but I am inclined to be skeptical about religions in general, so that may be due to my bias.
Alex, I'm curious how well that idea meshes with your beliefs.
also Stonehenge. A human could not pick those rocks up and certainly not lay one across on top of the others. Even if they did, Then you have it all laid out like the solar system.. what human eye saw or was aware of that?
Goliath was a nephilim(offspring of a fallen angel and human woman). Fallen angels where the 1/3 cast out with Lucifer. The angels were forbidden to ever come into contact physically with humans. When they were cast out that was the first thing they did. they were attracted to human women's hair. They had sex with them. The Offspring as a result of a supernatural being and a human were giants. These things were genetically evil! they ate people, kids, had sex with animals, etc. They were gigantic and also had supernatural powers. These are the ones that built the pyramids as altars to satan/Lucifer. No humans could possibly have built these as they were not even off measurement by a centimeter. The things were built like stars, aligned with stars and the shafts in them point to constellations known to have been worshipped as well. Orion, Sirius, Drake. The Flood was brought to kill off them nephilim.
The anthropological evidence of flood myths in the region with similar plots, the physical evidence that the flood was only localized, the geological and anthropological evidence dating the other myths to before the biblical version, the cultural anthropological evidence of storytelling tradions in the Jewish community at the time when the Bible was written, the physical evidence of wooden boats that size not being sea worthy... Furthermore, the scale of the flood wasn't big enough, even on a local level to force any sort of mass extinction event to occur.
Recent research suggests that the flooding was much less severe than previously thought, with levels rising only about 10 or so meters total. This would have devastating effects to the villages immediately surrounding the black Sea, and would devastate some of the farmlands around the tributaries, etc.... However, it is certainly not enough of a rise to believe that a giant boat was necessary for carrying animals, that he would have been at sea for almost a year without seeing land, etc....
It's not that there is one piece of evidence that damns the entire story, but there are a lot of pieces that poke a lot of holes into the story... That's why I'm confused why any part would be taken literally.
By accepting that the biblical flood wasn't global and that it didn't eradicate other lineages, you already concede the notion that humanity was preserved through Noah and that the Jewsish people are chosen somehow....so what is the point of this myth now? What importance does it play if it can't provide a special lineage?
Sorry Alex, I was asking our resident troll what the link between David and Goliath, the pyramids and Noah's flood was. He claimed there was one, then never came back to explain what he meant. I know it got buried before I responded, but I did reply specifically to him.
I do believe that there was a flood and if you are not taking the story literally, I don't really have any problem believing that there was a historical basis to it. I do doubt a world covering, apocalyptic flood that killed every living thing upon the earth since Chinese culture is older than said flood would account for, but that isn't what you are suggesting, so that doubt is in no way directed at you.
alex, you are on the wrong side of the fence.. go back home liberal
what overwhelming evidence it is just another flood epic? isn't it a matter of opinion? unless it's proved wrong by science? and to my knowledge it's not.
you stinky, decadent, know-nothing, skinny jeans trendies should do non-zomies a favor and go get your pineal gland checked.
so unless got something other than the nothingness you show capable of, take a walk. You want none of what i will slap you about with. What's your IQ by the way? I need a good laugh.
I'm really actually just trying to understand this because this kind of thinking makes no sense to me. I don't mean to put down you're belief system with this line of questioning.
Wouldn't it still be a more cohesive belief system to simply look at this as another epic though? If you already dismissed the notion of a global flood, then you've already accepted the implications that come along with Noah's lineage not being the only lineage left. Why is it so important that this story is true in the face of overwhelming evidence that it is just another of the many flood epics?
psycho dave, I don't play to you after
completely destroying your idiocy. You're old news and bring nothing and still feel you are a force somehow. I don't know, It's sad.
the thing is that my religion says there was a flood. science says there was a flood. science only says it's a flood, it doesn't say which religion caused it or whatever. so o can believe what I want, as long as it's somewhat logical. you take Noah's ark as a myth, I don't. you can't disprove it, I can prove there was a flood, but I can't prove Noah was on an ark during it.
These texts were all written well before the Biblical story of Noah. They all have the same themes as the story of Noah. Yet, you believe that this one is true? How can you honestly tell me that this isn't a case of special pleading? By what rational are you dismissing the other epics and myths but justifying the Biblical one?
First off, you should know better by now....that whole "with God anything is possible" is a terrible argument and you know it.
You're committing a fallacy known as "special pleading". Essentially you're saying: "there is no evidence to suggest that people can live this long, there are other fantastical stories out there that I'm fine dismissing, but this fantastical story is different and it's ok to suspend reason for this one special case".
on to the flood.
I don't think anyone is denying that there may have been a local flood in Mesopotamia a few thousand years ago. What I'm questioning is the validity of Noah's story as a sort of historical tale. Noah's story is simply another flood myth among the many others in the region. I'm arguing that we should look at the story of Noah like we look at the Epic of Gilgamesh, Epic of Ziusudra, Epic of Atrahasis, etc...
Do you believe that Gilgamesh met an immortal man named Utnapishtim who describes how the god Ea instructed him to build a huge vessel in anticipation of a deity-created flood that would destroy the world? The vessel would save Utnapishtim, his family, his friends, and the animals.
Do you believe the epic of Ziusudra, who heard the Divine Counsel plan to destroy humanity, in response to which he constructed a vessel that delivered him from great waters? In the Atrahasis version, the flood is a river flood
Do you believe in In the Sumerian King List? It relies on the flood motif to divide its history into preflood (antediluvian) and postflood periods. The preflood kings had enormous lifespans, whereas postflood lifespans were much reduced.
How about the Hindu mythology, texts such as the Satapatha Brahmana and the Puranas story of a great flood, wherein the Matsya Avatar of Vishnu warns the first man, Manu, of the impending flood, and also advises him to build a giant boat?
In Plato's Timaeus, Timaeus says that because the Bronze race of Humans had been making wars constantly Zeus was angered and decided to punish humanity by a flood. Prometheus the Titan knew of this and told the secret to Deucalion, advising him to build an ark in order to be saved. After 9 nights and days the water started receding and the ark was landed at Mount Parnassus. Do you believe this?
there is one of many links supporting the idea. now I'm pretty sure the guy who discovered the Titanic knows what he's talking about.
And that link is?
Sosocratees with God anything is possible. people could live for 900 years, ships could survive at sea.
the scientific evidence suggests a flood was in the same region Noah was in around a few thousand years of when histories suggest Noah lived. further research of the timing and flood has been postponed because of ISIS.
there is a link between David and Goliath, the flood and the pyramids.
Congrats, you have surpassed all past examples of useless debaters with 7 consecutive arguments without any point at all.
Yes, you said the chips override the person's thought process. That is a paranoid lie.
Otherwise, whenever you get the chance, feel free to actually debate. If you succeed, then you can brag to the voices in your head. Until then it just makes you look utterly ridiculous that you think you are winning any debate thus far.
Scientific evidence suggests there was a flood in the region. However, that flood does not correspond to the timing provided in the Bible. Granted, the way we do the math in the Bible is to add up the various lineages described and we have to use absurd numbers like someone being 600 to 900 years old.... The story of Noah's Ark, among most scholars, is thought to be a retelling of the events that also inspire "the Epic of Gilgamesh". It's hard to imagine that any of the particulars of Noah's Ark would be true.
The flood that likely inspired the Christian myth of Noah seems to be the same one that many regional epics, myths, and sagas depict in some form or fashion. We don't really accept any of their accounts as facts, unless you want to start accepting things like ogres etc.... So if we apply Occam's razor to this, we'd come to the conclusion that the story of Noah's Ark of likely just another myth born from a natural disaster with no real historical accuracy. This makes even more sense when you consider the Jewish tradition of storytelling at the time the Bible was written. Fantastical stories have been used throughout the ages to remember tragic events, convey messages of suffering, joy, loss, victory, hero worship, and lessons in humility, bravery, etc... The only reason this story is treated differently than other stories from the same region about the same set of events is because of religious belief....
There is absolutely no evidence that a man can live for 600 years, that a boat of that size could have even been sea worthy.
The Wyoming was the largest wooden schooner ever constructed by some of the most talented shipwrights in new England in the 1900's. They used the most modern building techniques of the time and the ship still would twist in the sea, leaked, and eventually sank killing all 14 on board. The Ark was supposed to have been bigger than the Wyoming, built by much less skillful workers, manned by much less skillful crew in smaller numbers.... It seems very unlikely that this story is anything more than another myth about a local flood.
I'm done listening to your garbage responses and you not understanding when to take the high road when you got swatted. So let's do it and I want everyone's attention so they can attest to the railing you get from me.
in fact, if you want to get slammed around in a debate and shown how one dimensional, weak, lacking and pathetic you are I will be perfectly happy to make that reality. with everyones attention to show how inferior you are once and for all!
When you say "people", you mean you and like minded nitwits.. I just want to make that clear if someone is so bored to considered reading your slapped together, sloppy BS drivel.
paranoid is thinking your gross little fart is gonna destroy the world, mental midget.
You've never once gotten over on me and in fact you chase me around all bitter in alot of cases because you are angry that i handled you so decisively. The paranoid thing is something you and the skinny jeans gang use to discredit but maybe your pants a little too tight because I am not paranoid but rather have knowledge and am a realist.
and further more i have embarrassed you and your little cronies on a sweeping basis. You truly have no shame or reality of how things are.
if you can follow a statement without adding to it or getting it misconstrued you would see that i said THEIR PLAN is to override the thought process of the host, psycho dave. Where itf are you getting that confused?
Maximus, the reason people keep calling you paranoid is because you keep being paranoid. You have said the mind Co troll chips are being used, aliens are actually demons, as well as many other conspiracy theories and have yet to back any of them up with evidence. That is, by definition, paranoid.
That is fair, and as long as you are not taking them literally, science can not and has not disproven them. It is when people believe in them literally that their beliefs have been disproven.
the jews 2000 years ago didn't take it literally, the early christians never took it literally, catholics today font take it literally. the first 5 books of the bible were never intended to be taken literally, and never were.
if you remove all the impossible parts then it is no longer Noah's ark. without those parts it is simply the Babylonian story the Bible stole it from.
you proved the LITERAL interpretation can't be true. however Noah's ark still happened, and is backed up by science
I've already proven that Noah's ark cannot be true. there is no way to disprove the things I have said.
if you have read it, it also takes understanding and you do not posess that. But keep going because like i said, i'm going to give your a proper smashing soon but i want you to dig yourself a deep hole first.
stop, you never read anything, you keep saying paranoid and i will go on a personal tirade to destroy your soul.
what are you even talking about? I told you why the story of Noah's ark cannot be true. all you said was some paranoid rant about not trusting empirical, well proven facts. all that shows us is that you are completely irrational.
what historybuff said is correct. Noah and his family were not the only survivers, the whole earth was not flooded, and every animal was not put on the ark.
the truth is Noah went on a boat with a lot of animals and there was a huge flood where people died.
there are so many sceintific lies that are meant to prove why you should be eliminated and I mean us, humans when i say you, that maybe you should question everything. science is proving a case of why you SHOULD not be here! When you hear them say they need to lower the polulation, do you think you are exempt? hahahaa
And science you have disproves all, that's your gospel?
I have mainly read the New International Bible and the New King James Bible. Does that in some way change the fact that evidence shows that there are civilians in Asia that predate the story of the flood?
alright. all animals got onto one boat. obviously false. there are millions of species of animals they could physically not fit onto one boat.
that the entire earth became flooded. Obviously false. geographical records show that this never happened.
all mankind was wiped out except for noah and his family. obviously false. studies of sedimentary layers of the earth prove this to be completely not true. besides which mankind would have died out from inbreeding if there had only been 1 family left alive.
so if you eliminate those parts what do you have left. A guy got on a boat with some animals and some people died. It is a completely different story once you eliminate the parts that are impossible.
there is an absolutely proven link to it all... I will anxiously watch you burry yourselves first.
dave, same question..
History buff, what bible have you read?
Alex, that wasn't meant as an attack at your beliefs because I know you don't take the first books literally. You have to admit that those who do are mistaken though.
You are also mistaken if you think there was no human population anywhere but the middle east at that point.
no. Noah's ark is completely disproven. unless you are willing to remove all the elements from it which are religious.
psycho dave, I would run away from talking about the bible and i MEAN run away. You know nothing about it and reject God.
Noah's flood has NOT been disprovin! That is a lie.
Somewhere in the middle east there is PROOF there was a large flood a few thousand years ago (around the time of Noah). and the only human population was in that region. remember the first few books of the bible are Not to be tacken literally, and never were.
That depends on the religious belief. The literal creation story has been soundly disproven. Noah's flood has been disproven. These are not core beliefs, but they are religious beliefs to some.