The debate "Do you think Antifa is a threat to the United States" was started by
August 26, 2018, 11:37 am.
17 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 12 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Matthew354 posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
Nemiroff posted 10 arguments to the disagreers part.
MrLibertarian, Aaronr12, mr_600rr, AGustafson, Matthew354, NitinTher and 11 visitors agree.
Nemiroff, peoplesociety, wth64828, crispsandchips and 8 visitors disagree.
I'm sure there are feminists (or some members of any and every group) who use similar tactics. however can you give examples of how feminism in general employ such tactics in a routine and consistent mainstream manner.
if not then this will be another example of how powerful the right has been able to controlling and defining the narratives that even liberals succumb to them.
if yes then I will stand corrected.
The entire feminist movement, as it is on the left, also very much uses these tactics especially in the extreme branches that it's spawned. I hate that about "my partty" because I think feminists have real issues they could tackle but they choose such dumb arguments and goals. O and I've seen the Prager U videos and they absolutely disgust me. Especially the ones containing scientists who completely misinterpret the scientific community and spin it. I as a hopefully new up and coming scientist and terrified of how power those videos seem to some people.
I believe you are very much underestimating the right wing truth twisting machine. you and much of the left try to argue based on intellectually nuanced terms, however that so also why the right dominates the message at every turn.
their falsehoods, even when framed as questions have strong rhetorical and narrative messages that need to be confronted directly. our counterparts are goal oriented. the means are irrelevant. and if we dance to their tune unprepared, we will lose.
have you not seen the very effiecently veiled nonsense of prager U videos popping up as YouTube ads?
and may I recommend another YouTube series:
I completely agree with your nuanced approach, however one must acknowledge when the other side is not playing by the same rules and using deceptive and fallacious tactics.
Yeah no that's a great example of what you were talking about. But by attacking the title as well to me it just made your argument weaker since that had less grounding.
"I heavily agree, they exist to spread violence and hate in response to Trump being elected president. If that isn't enough, the federal government has classified them as a terrorist group, that is proof enough for me that they are a threat to the United States."
whether you take the question literally or as a heavily implied suggestion, I started this line of argument in response to a popular right wing nonsense as represented by this quote from an earlier post
The title of this isn't even making a claim of whether or not antifa is a threat. It's posing the question. See again I think you're not focusing on the right things and people are going to try and debate something different from the actual problem you wish to address.
I'm not trying to diminish the extremists on the left, but to actively ridicule the one sided, exaggerated, hypocritical statements such as the title of this and similar threads.
it is a counter argument, not an independent claim.
Right I agree but I don't think you need to diminish the problems of the left to showcase how much more violent the right can get. I think they do that on their own. I just think that sets you up to have the wrong debates with people on the right which would result in you getting no where with that individual. Ideally of course if debates ever ended with someone perhaps changing their mind or perspective.
I agree intent is most important, however the key word is ONLY act with fatal intent. the individual should most certainly be prosecuted, however I don't see how this single person single act can betwisted into an entire extremist wing.
certainly the antifa are extreme, but their list of actual fatal violence is practically nonexistent, and the claims that they are as bad or worse than right wing violence is absolute, objective, nonsense. it's not even close.
I understand the point your making with all of this I just want people not to use fallacies when they're not needed. For example instead of saying the left has never resulted in a fatal death you could have said that the right has a much higher ratio of violence. I think you did say that but that statement got muddied by the fact that you brought up that other point.
I think the fact that the senator shooting was not fatal is irrelevant because the intent was to be fatal. I understand that's not what you asked for but to me intent is more important than the outcome. A lot of left leaning branches of politics has the same potential to be just as violent and we do see that from time to time. Your statement is that it's never ended up with a fatal ending. Yet I did bring up an example that did no matter how old and a more recent example that still had the same intent. Also from experience I've noticed that when people on both sides get too passionate and let anger blind them they'll turn to irrational violence.
yes, if we go back 5 whole decades, we do have the black Panthers. however that senator shooting had 0 fatalities and appears to be the only event with fatal intent within the current half century.
I'm sure there may be other examples, eagerly awaiting them. especially compared to the numerous, and massively fatal right wing incidents
The Black Panthers in the 70s and some guy shot some republican senators around two years ago. Although I am on the left but I understand both sides have flawed violent parties.
however I am not suprised that my request has been avoided. I'm not sure if there have been ANY deaths to left wing violence at all.
its disappointing how easily people buy into their paritsan nonsense
I just find it hilarious when people who pursue violence against nonviolent people based on identity start CRYING and pretending they are victims when met with the same treatment that they show others
in addition to hypocrisy, this is the most degenerate form of cowardice.
at least the antifa *worldwide* target those who choose to enter the conflict rather than innocent simply based on birth factors. as far as america goes, still waiting for examples to see how they stack up against the consistent right wing terrorism we face.
I think other movements are far far more threatening. Especially this worsening divide in American politics where each side refuses to even talk to the other side. That to me is a threat.
you seem very confident in your opinion but refuse to provide any actually evidence for why you believe that.
honestly sounds like your sipping a bunch of kool aid my friend. antifa violence is big in Europe, but in America it is right wing violence that is most prevalent.
still waiting for actual examples.
also, it would have been nice if some antifa stood up to nazi Germany before the entire world got engulfed into a massive, violent war to stop them. or do you think we should have just debated hitler peacefully?
do you have any examples of these activities that you claim threaten the very nation?
I heavily agree, they exist to spread violence and hate in response to Trump being elected president. If that isn't enough, the federal government has classified them as a terrorist group, that is proof enough for me that they are a threat to the United States.
screw fascists. sorry, I don't support turning the other cheek and responding with violence to violence is not the same as initiating the violence and hate.
if violence against violence and hate is bad I guess going to war with nazis was wrong? bull!