The debate "Do you think third wave feminism is productive.Why or why not" was started by
January 7, 2019, 3:52 pm.
By the way, MatthewTurner03 is disagreeing with this statement.
31 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 86 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
Nemiroff posted 14 arguments to the agreers part.
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TJefferson and 30 visitors agree.
MatthewTurner03, JDAWG9693, DollarStoreDildo, SMNR, dhillman1280, FuckTheSnowflakes, ambrose242, Nemiroff, shahriaralzubayer1, XpertHemant, Ural, lucky, Debate_Wonder, Princess826, millennialmale, TD, finthechat, oklagija, GreatDivider, LucyTheDebatorQueen, lukeluckynuke123 and 65 visitors disagree.
First time I'm actually herring of this.
It's counter productive.
What I have issue with is the rhetoric. Half the population are men. Add to that women who don't identify with their struggle. Subtract the "cucked" men who support 3rd wave feminism. Possibly, add the women who call themselves feminists but don't really actively promote feminism or behave like your typical 3rd wave feminist.
What you get is a small minority. Yet they are acting arrogantly, making very entiteled points, demanding respect, being guilty of double standards (because at the end of the day, there's no objective standard as to what the conceptual difference is between "men are pigs" and " women are pigs"). They aren't bothered by the consequences of their toxic PC language, which indicates nihilism to me and makes it very unattractive. They're alienating the less educated working class, most men, working class women, people living in rural areas, for crying out loud ordinary liberally minded folks who just aren't PC enough or use wrong pronouns.
Toxic identity politics is probably one of the reasons why young men are turning to nationalism and right wing populism. And these morons don't care, that they're contributing to unnecessary division in society.
Income gaps, gendered norms, violence against women are all issues worth bringing up. But the way these folks approach the issues is cult-like. 3rd wave feminism, no thanks.
what women's rights laws do you want men to have copies of? as I said I agree there is injustice against men in family court, but that is not an issue with a specific law but individual judgements by judges.
as far as I can tell there are few to none sex specific laws and I have no idea what your talking about. I've repeatedly asked for specific examples and got only vague responses in return. which laws are you talking about? please name the laws and dont just say "the unfair laws" or "those laws". name the laws, please.
every single one that womens have, and please tell me what rights womens can get that they already don't have
what mens rights laws would you want to introduce?
I like the way I am so I would not like that. But what i am trying to say is that feminism in now days are not needed, because they already have so many rights on there side. So what I am saying is that instead getting laws for womens let's get some laws for mens rights, because there is none of them.
yes, the gender norms of masculinity mean that men cannot cry, cannot show weakness, and if they cannot provide, they are absolute losers in life. these are the reasons that men have such high suicide rates, and these all existed well before feminism.
feminists are fighting against assumed gender norms which would eliminate all of these mandates allowing people, including men, to be individuals.
I do agree that equal rights means chivalry is dead. In most fights, even between 2 men, the social expectation is to call the police, not to engage in a brawl. and you are always allowed to defend yourself. may I ask, given the current situation, would you have prefered to be born a woman?
I am also gonna say u this if men is getting punched by women he can not fight back why because he would be pussy sry for language but it is true. But let look from this prespective if you want be same as I, I can fight back. And then women would be like but u are man so that is what i am talking about womens in now days manipulate how they want and no one can stop them because there is thousands of laws protecting them.
Please listen today people must act strong, if you are not strong u will become soneones meal. Also please tell me one single law that is protecting man today. Yep there is no single one because they can not say anything against womens because they will be on bad talk and whole world will be against them.
I believe I do know some things about the world today. if men would look weak fighting for their rights (why?), how is it that they look strong whining about others do fight? isnt that the american spirit?
also, what rights do men not have? there are certainly a few injustices that need correcting, like custody and alimony, but no missing rights.
Men today don't have any rights because tgey would look weak if they were looking for some rights. Also it became a every day ritual that we think that womens are always bullied my males.
If you knew something about today's world you would know that there is no laws for mens rights
oh there are definitely men supporting women's rights. im wondering why we don't see men fighting for their own rights. why are men's groups ignoring issues like unfair custody decisions or outrageous alimony decisions. instead they pass around feminazi hate memes.
what rights do women have that men do not?
No, I just said some facts. For exemple look at the world after and before WW2. World begin coming backwards.
If you were looking some news and look at some protest for women's rights you could see some men's also fighting for family and women's rights.
can you name a single mens rights groups fighting for family court justice or any men's issues instead of just whining about feminists?
can you give me an example of an assault that was not prosecuted? or is this fake news talking points?
I would say that feminism now, is like racism in 1970, and it is gona be even worst in few years. Feminism should stop because it's just someones product of his imagination and in niw days it is usual to see male get beaten from girl because female is niw protected with all of the possible wrights and males got none of them. Just sad and shame for today's world.
why is feminism a cancer Mr. snowflake?
Feminism is cancer.
if I may push back, certainly individual cases businesses pay whatever they please, but if we take a large enough sample size it should equal out. like a coin flip can be heads 4 times in a row, but do it 1000 times and it will become 50/50. if the wage problem is real, it isnt a problem with capitalism, but with our society.
also, what is wrong with the proposed solutions to this issue?
I'm going to disagree simply because the third wave feminist movement are tackling issues through wide spread awareness of intangible controversies.
Women get paid less - that is an issue with capitalism, a non sentient entity and not concrete gender equality. In Capitalism business owners (within bare minimum legal boundaries) are allowed to pay anyone whatever they please and it is the individuals choice to conform to those terms.
Marching won't produce anything if it is not on legislative agendas so in that sense the third wave feminist approach is not producing results.
I'd give more examples but I'm out of time here.
sorry for the propaganda comment, I certainly agree with it, but its probably gonna get us off topic.
however, I dont see a single relevant point in that article. it says many real and serious concerns for men across the us, like their need to be manly and get suicidal at failure has nothing with feminism, and is caused by the same thing feminists and gender nonconformists are fighting against.
Instead of drowning ourselves in feminazi memes, we should be fighting against our own concerns with outdated gender roles, like family court equality and the machismo mandate. unfortunately that doesnt seem to be even be an option for the right wing.
excellent article for showing bad propaganda.... can you quote a point in that article that means anything because this line in the article shows how laughable some the points are:
"Women are also much more likely to talk about mental health issues, while men rarely come forward and are therefore less likely to get treated"
really? is that the fault of feminists? that's ridiculous. men have always had higher suicide rates due to the requirements of being manly and the sole providers. supporting woman in taking down these gender norms will HELP men. I wish mens groups would fight for positive mens issues like family court equity instead of being just another hate group fighting AGAINST the concerns of others.
also logical arguments about "why would or wouldnt they" are secondary to objective facts and actual numbers. I agree that the wage gap is questionable, but their solutions are very reasonable and fair. do you know what their proposed solutions are?
all the issues I mentioned are from 3rd wave so mentioning the other waves is irrelevant. before we discuss the details of the issue I raised, I'm still waiting for an example of their politics of being offended seeing as none of those issues are about being offended....
I'm not disputing feminism, as I wholeheartedly agree with first and second wave feminism where women were made to have the same LEGAL rights as men. And, now that they have that, third wave feminism is useless. The wage gap is NOT true. I don't wanna sound like an echo chamber, but the arguments of the Equal Pay Act and "why wouldn't companies hire mostly women because it's cheaper" are always good arguments.
As for social standards, all one should do, I think, is simply not follow them, rather than scream about them.
I can totally see how parts of the 3rd gender movement is about what offends people, but not feminism...
feminist complain about unequal pay for equal work or lack of representation in halls of power, public or private. they complain about the excessive expectation for beauty (high heels, full makeup, uncomfortable clothes) and unrealistic expectations for their personality (trump and Bernie yelled throughout the campaign, but with hillary, her yelling was the headline... also her clothes)
none of this is about being offended... and these are their main issues. so what exactly are feminists being offended by?
can you provide an example of this?
One of the main goals of third wave feminism is censorship via political correctness, which is 100% based on what offends people. And, that thought process is a slippery slope.
An ideal as itself cannot be productive. however the actions that may pursue of the idea of EQUALITY, are definitely good, but modern day feminism has taken on a radical spin where it's more of opression of forces than equality, which is NOT productive
what do you mean "all about what offends people"? it seems more about cultural double standards to me.
Third wave feminism is all about what offends people. People need to toughen up and deal with it. Words can only hurt you if you let them.