The debate "Donald Trump has done a good job so far" was started by
February 7, 2018, 4:02 am.
17 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 17 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
There is a tie in this debate, post your arguments, call some reinforcements and break this tie.
Slymcfly posted 10 arguments, Ematio posted 3 arguments to the agreers part.
lachlan posted 7 arguments, historybuff posted 1 argument, Nemiroff posted 8 arguments to the disagreers part.
Ematio, Slymcfly, sabrina, chasediedrich1, criscap, wallingson13, chemikilsm0ke and 10 visitors agree.
Nemiroff, AnnaLee, FiddleStorm, lachlan, TreyO, Yiyi, Lennon13 and 10 visitors disagree.
And you guys are both 100% right. Trump is NOT a republican. Not even close. He cares about politics, and I think he does care about helping us again, but he's doing it in ways that are TANGIBLE that we can actually see. Like for instance, my fiance and I started pulling in an extra $600 per month just from the new tax cuts alone. You know what I was doing when Obama was President? I was homeless, living on the streets, sleeping in the walkway of a restaurant in the downtown area. I didn't have a job, I was addicted to pills, and I was hopeless, after earning a Bachelor's in Political Science and a AS in Economics. Now, I work for a Solar Company, and I'll make 6 figures a year this year. And part of that, is thanks to Trump.
Nemiroff, you're confusing a "large economy" with a "good economy". Sure California makes a TON of money. But we've been run by DEMOCRATS for DECADES. Since we have such a large economy, can you explain to me why, with Democratic leadership, we still have the highest poverty and homeless rates? And the lowest standardized testing scores? Answer these questions for me, if you can. Because I've lived here, right by SF for my entire life. I am very aware of my own State's politics and how disasterous it's been. This is why most of California wants to break off and become their own state. Because most of us can't stand the Democratic leadership that has proven to be inept and failures every single time.
yes, I wouldn't really consider him a Republican of any kind tho. I don't think he cares about politics.
Regardless of where this argument is headed, or whether you guys agree with small government or not, Trump is a big government statist.
California has the highest poverty rate of any state and the lowest ranking test scores in public school.
Thats the problem with judging standard of living and prosperity with GDP and not by real wealth and liberty.
Also a problem with using USA Today as a source.
California has the largest, most prosperous economy of any state in the nation.
and where did you get the welfare number from? if anything most government assistance is given to people who are employed and mostly to red "conservative" states.
red states are the poorest, most undereducated, and use the most federal money.
how ironic. the state's that advocate for the least government are most dependent on the government. and the party most obsessed with prioritizing the economy have the worst economy. wow.
maybe it's those migrants stimulating the economy.
maybe it's those regulations adding consumer confidence to the market.
maybe it's the higher wages allowing people to actual patron and support their local businesses.
i understand the logic of your ideologies on paper... but they don't work in reality.
Not when nearly 75% of those people end up on welfare it isn't. How is it a difficult concept for YOU to understand that if you're a doing a job, and an illegal immigrant comes in and tells you that he will do it for cheaper, which is what has been happening, especially in the agriculture industry, that DRIVES WAGES DOWN, NOT UP. Also, how is it a hard concept to understand that when they are taking welfare and using every other public service we provide, and making minimal amount and barely putting anything back into the economy, that does NOT help the economy. Your argument is such a farce. If larger population = more prosperity and less poverty, then California wouldn't be the total shithole it is now, and wouldn't have the highest poverty and homeless rates IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. How can you not see that? California, where I live, I essentially the experiment for the rest of the country. And just to clue you in, IT'S NOT WORKING WELL. California even REFUSES to release the races and legal statuses of their inmates. What kind of garbage is that? You can not sit here and tell me that bringing in a TON of poor people is good for our economy. The only thing that is good for, is to make the rich richer by making their labor costs cheaper. If you can't understand this very basic fundamental of economics, I really wish you wouldn't vote for these things..
how is the concept that people create growth difficult for you? immigrants are a huge boost to the economy. getting rid of them is only shooting yourself in the foot.
And that's just a single example that will save us billions of dollars, if Democrats will allow it to happen. Another thing is all the people who have come off welfare. So now, instead of taking money from the government, and putting it back into the economy, they're making their OWN money, and putting it back into the economy.
The only thing that Trump could do right now that would MAJORLY screw us over, is if he made us go to war. THAT would be A DISASTER.
And what do they plan to do to help the economy? I think their views on illegal immigration answer that question. Illegal immigrants, altogether, cost us BILLIONS of dollar per year. And getting rid of them alone, would help the economy TREMENDOUSLY(including public schooling, incarceration, healthcare or hospital visits, childcare, etc). Sure they do pay SOME taxes, but one HUGE reason we are HEMORRHAGING money, is because of them right now. Also, I don't want to hear the argument that they do work we won't do. That argument is both racist and incorrect. Americans will do those jobs if they're paid appropriately, and most of those jobs can actually be taken over by machines. With that argument, all you're saying is that you enjoy the cheap labor they provide. And I think that is both wrong and exploitative.
Lachlan, that was regarding an entirely different subject on how we need to make sure we do a good job respecting one another, and had nothing to do with my argument regarding Trump. Come on man. You've GOT to be able to follow that..
Slymfly talking about your credentials is not a counter argument. You reasoned why you are capable of being right, not why you are right. Also, you have no idea what we are in real life, it turns out I have worked for political organizations too.
It's true that the economy picked up with Trump in office because of speculation, however I can't think of anything much, besides deregulation and tax cuts that were extremely positive. It is the top of the business cycle now anyway so the economy was already headed toward full employment.
Many things Trump backs will raise deficit spending that will have problems in the long run. What plans do Trump and the GOP have to reduce defecit spending?
I mean, unless you guys have a degree in economics and I'm just incredibly wrong. That's always possible. But judging from the arguments you've made thus far, I can't possibly see that being the case.
Like you guys are fun to debate and all, when you know what you're talking about. But to have you guys, clearly much less educated than me in some subjects, including this on in particular, and having you guys be belittling and patronizing and trying to sorta "bully" me because we have opposing views, makes it MUCH less fun. Especially when I've dedicated my entire life to politics and debate. It's much more difficult (to me) to do that through an app like this, but that's the best I've got on my off days that I'm not in my debate club.
Dude you guys are insanely inept when it comes to the economy. How come on the DOW graph, AS SOON AS Trump was elected, and then inaugurated, the trends SHOT STRAIGHT UP? It's because just the thought of having Obama leave office ended up breathing life into a deadlined, depressed economy. The tax cuts ALONE that brought business tax down 13% INCLUDING SMALL BUSINESSES, has companies coming back to the USA LEFT AND RIGHT. Did you also miss the part last quarter where Trump even exceeded economists expectations by TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND JOBS. If you guys really buy into the awful, misleading rhetoric from the articles you sent me, I encourage you guys to take some economics and business classes. I minored in economics, and it is extremely obvious that you guys are both eating up whatever the mainstream media tells you, and then looking for research from Trump-haters, who will never give him credit no matter WHAT he does, to prove your point. How come you guys never use Fox sources?? I use CNN and MSNBC sources for you guys, just to be generous. You know why I do that? Because I already know that my argument is a lot stronger, and that I can find the information even from people who oppose my political views.
is that a response to the situation I raised?
because it sounds like a default position you will hold no matter what situation i may show. the evidence is you didn't mention a single issue I brought up.
if the entire economy is growing, most people should feel some amount of proportional gain. if you feel that there is 0 obligation for workers to be rewarded, what do you feel workers should be allowed to do? if they can't petition for their rights, they may just reach for pitchforks and torches. and if you say they can't take justice into their own hands, and have no power, they are slaves as well. so let's flip your 13th ammendment argument from owners to workers.
No. If someone is making a profit it is not at ypur expense.
the question was about wage increases because of his tax plan.
and wages haven't been going up this entire time. in fact, the fact that wages may need to go up starting now was one of the 2 reasons being attributed to this crash.
in a growing economy, don't you think all segments should grow *proportionately*? if a small part is taking all the gains, can't that be considered theft?
Ematio is actually right about this, wages are relatively high right now, though id argue not necessarily because of Trump but because of high employment.
have they? in significant numbers? amongst the low wage?
They've also gotten wage increases
bonuses mean nothing, especially $1000 bonuses. we need wage increases.
tax cuts are a repeating benefit, why do workers get a one time treat?
Correct. So do you believe $300 billion of money the government dosen't have over two years to military is a good idea? Trump thinks so.
Do you think abolishing the debt ceiling and basically giving the federal govermment unlimited power is a good idea? Trump thinks so.
Do you think primitive protectionist policies are a good idea? Trump thinks so.
Do you think spending over 1 Trillion on infastructure (out of the -20 trillion the government has) is a good idea? Trump thinks so.
Do you think regarding unsustainable entitlement programs as untouchable is a good idea? Trump thinks so.
Yeah, and people are getting their money back
I'm not against tax cuts I'm for responsibility.
Didn't you say you were a libertarian?
read the article I linked. those things haven't had any measurable effect of the economy yet.
Yeah right. The tax cuts that Donald Trump implemented are already working. Companies are giving out more money and bonuses, and companies are bringing their taxes over
Slymfly have you ever understood the business cycle? lol. The stock market would have risen no matter who took office.
All the good things you are seeing are in the short run.
Businesses come to the states and the short run and Trump will keep raising tariffs to keep the country poor.
The Republican majority will keep the runaway spending up until they are voted out. The claim to be be fiscal conservatives and seem to worship government spending. The same conservatives that didn't agree with keynsian policies under Obama seem to suddenly agree with it under Trump.
Tell me, what do you think will happen if the debt keeps rising and what will the Republicans do to fix it?
are you sure you want to be bringing up the market right now?
economic change takes years. nothing trump has done has had much effect of the economy yet. you are still seeing the effects of years of growth under Obama. have a look at the article from forbes. he inherited a boom economy and is trying to take credit for it.
Lachlan you are so full of shit that it's coming out of your ears. If you really think that Trump hasn't done GREAT things for this economy, you just aren't following. look at a Statistical chart of the stock market, we'll use Dow.. if you go online and look up the trends, you'll notice that AS SOON as Trump was elected president, the market started to BOOM. You'll also notice that Trump has brought back HUNDRED OF THOUSANDS of jobs from oversees by bringing the tax rate for businesses down from 34% to 21%, so that businesses actually WANT to come to the United States, and so that we can actually COMPETE with other country's tax rates. And this is just a small microcosm of the great things Trump has done for the economy.
Donald Trump is proving that the Republican Party is just as fiscally irresponsible as the Democrats. It makes no sense for fiscal libertarians to support him thus far.