The debate "Female murtad are able to coerce and manipulate sex from men by mocking reproduction parts" was started by
an anonymous person on
May 7, 2018, 12:57 pm.
12 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 2 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Najam1 posted 9 arguments to the agreers part.
Gorgon posted 7 arguments to the disagreers part.
tylathecat, greencat and 10 visitors agree.
Gorgon, Keto disagree.
What a surprise, giving people ultimatums to join your religion fills your religion's ranks with enemies.
Forced conversion doesn't true believers make. Instead, if it's converts you want, you should take a page from Christianity, and offer him a hearty meal, then let him go free and think about what could make someone so giving and virtuous.
That'd still be a dishonest cult recruitment tactic crafted by the engineers of religion to convince people to spread the ideology by appealing to your better nature, but you'd not have the murtad issue.
Better still would be secular therapy and community service. That teaches people adult responsibilities and lowers likelihood of continued criminality.
Burglars have been known to enter by front doors. And Muslims break their own prohibitions all the time. And some find themselves in straits so desperate, they have to resort to burglary to survive. In any case, therapy and education reduce crime rates, not slavery and religion. Remember what I said about how overrepresented religion is in prison?
Just in case you factor in that the burglar could be one of the Muslims, you must understand that Islam enters by the front door of any home. It never sneaks in through the window or kicks down anybody's door.
Work this scenario.
A burglar surprises a Muslim homeowner.
The Muslim manages to subdue and capture him.
He imprisons the robber in his own home.
This automatically means that robber is a slave who must obey, and is allowed not weapons. Instead of handing the robber over to whatever police may possibly be summoned, he offers the robber Islam in exchange for freedom.
The robber accepts.
He is allowed to leave.
He turns into one of the murtad as soon as he uses his freedom to claim Allah and the Muslims are the problem.
He is probably just too frightened to return to a life of burglary.
That's how murtad are known.
They are not angels who are better than Muslims, yet they always got something awful to say about upright and godly folk.
Its common for ex cultists to go on campaigns against the cult they left. Therefore, the existence of apostates campaigning against Islam's abuses is no more proof of Islam than it is of Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, Heaven's Gate, or Jonestown. Its an utterly fallacious argument, more damning of Islam than anything else. If Islam was the perfect ideal moral system, it'd not have haters and apostates.
Just looked up murtad.
It means apostate.
Apostates, BY THE DEFINITION OF APOSTATE, do not believe your deity exists.
They MIGHT or MIGHT NOT hate that concept of a deity, in the same sense some people hate Voldemorte, a fictional villain.
All that apostates prove is that your religion isn't so convincingly obvious that no one would ever leave it. All that spiteful apostates demonstrate is that some take umbrage with treatment by members of your community.
WHICH MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE THREAT OF MURDER AND SHUNNING IF YOU LEAVE ISLAM, HMMM?
Don't you think, if you were, say, an atheist, and converted to Islam, and your friends and family shunned you for it and sent you death threats, that you might come to feel bitter towards their beliefs?
Well? Have you capacity to understand the pain of others? Have you compassion?
Maybe have some compassion on your victims, instead of blaming them, and coming up with these bizarre rationalizations about "those evil murtad women are all filthy whores" and slanderous bullshit like that.
The murtad women are evidence that he exists and has haters and traitors. Now, why wouldn't those women simply move on to the next man boasting about an even greater god if Allah was actually null?
Loophole? This is basic epistemology, dude. People believing Allah exists doesn't make him exist. That's an Ad Populam fallacy. Only a fool follows so blindly after the crowd as you do, and then has the gall to call those who don't foolish.
Furthermore, a more parsimonious explanation of why so many believe he exists is Illusion of External Agency. We're more likely to perceive events as being staged if they have some emotional impact on us. This is an instinct bred into us that we percieve in many other thinking things. Better to assume a lion waits where none exists than assume otherwise where a lion actually is.
Notice how few claim any deity does any mundane thing, only miraculously arranged events that can also be ascribed to mundane circumstance. Notice no believer in any god, spirit, or idol has demonstrated that entity to grant knowledge they couldn't possibly know otherwise.
It's because your perception of him is a figment of human imagination, like all other deities.
You won't escape me through that loophole.
You have to accept that the Olympics exist.
Acknowledging that, you have to acknowledge that Allah is a god worshipped and known throughout the Earth itself. Some participants are Muslims. Muslims proclaim Allah to be the only god.
Some fool will always say there's a god that's poor and needing help.
"How could Allah be [...] wealthy if he doesn't exist?"
I was rebutting this loaded question. How can you ask this question as if I grant that Allah is wealthy? I don't believe he is either poor or wealthy. I don't believe he exists. If you want to demonstrate him wealthy to me, you must show he exists.
Sorry, let me rephrase: you assumed I would grant Allah was wealthy. Why? I don't believe he exists. How can what doesn't exist be wealthy?
If you believe that the Almighty himself lives in poverty, that's part of the problem.
I challenge you to produce even one Muslim willing to state that Allah is poor, even behind a cloaked identity.
They raise fuss proportional to the abuse they perceive on part of Islam. How much criticism Islam gets does not correlate with how real any particular deity is. There's no logical connection.
Furthermore, who said Allah was wealthy? Not a position I've granted. However, non existent individuals are quite commonly famous. Luke Skywalker, Frodo Baggins, Darth Vader, Dio Brando.... and let's not forget fictitious figures some believe are real, like Thor and Odin. Fiction is popular in all forms, even, sometimes, as purported truths.
They wouldn't be raising all that sand and commotion if Allah wasn't the most famous and loving king of mankind. How could Allah be famous and wealthy if he doesn't exist?
Oh, so its the Islamic version of Scientology's "crims." So its how you slander those who try to hold you accountable. People who war against your religion "haven't discovered who Allah is, and decided to rebel against him," they find serious fault with your religion's attitudes and institutions and want to hold people like YOU responsible for stoning, spousal abuse, and warmongering. They don't believe your god actually exists. You can't rebel against a person you don't believe exists. Even if Allah actually existed, they'd not be rebelling against him because *they don't believe he exists.*
A murtad milli is someone who discovers who Allah is, and goes on the offensive against him and the Muslims.
Murtad are free to tell any lie, the females will have sex with any man or woman willing to entertain their war against the Almighty.
Oh, and remember, outliers tend to get a lot of attention. We human beings pay more attention to what strikes us as unusual, or as disgraceful or immoral.
It's easy to assume things like "Americans are all greedy pigs" or "middle eastern people want to nuke everyone else" because it's easier to notice the greedy banker scamming the whole economy or the middle eastern religious extremist cutting off heads than it is to notice that ordinary old lady peacefully feeding pigeons at the American or Iranian park, not hurting a fly.
You need hard statistics to prove these things, not anecdotes and hyperbole.
What exactly is a murtad? Ive honestly never heard the phrase before.
Female murtad are in society. They insult all that's sacred.
This seems like an outlier. You seem to take a lot of anecdotes of unusual cases and extrapolate onto society as a whole...
Call it the sob story that works.
A half dressed woman can easily convince any drunken man into having sex by merely claiming that all previous men couldn't pleasure her, and their reproduction parts are too small.
Reverse psychology 101, folks!