The debate "France bans burkini its official. french politicians are perverts" was started by
August 25, 2016, 4:29 pm.
11 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 16 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
thereal posted 4 arguments, djdiamond posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
TheProudWeirdo posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
thereal, WBrennan, djdiamond, Najam1 and 7 visitors agree.
dalton7532, charlieholmes, NationalistGuy, north, NotoriousBishop and 11 visitors disagree.
fair enough, then
I'm arguing about being able to see your face, like features at least
So face paint and makeup can't be used to look different? I think you need to reevaluate your position.
People will be able to see their face; but for some women, only out of necessity
I don't care if they're Muslim or atheist even, as long as I can see their face. Wigs don't hide someones entire face, nor does face paint.
Long wigs disguise people. Do you feel we should ban long hair to make sure men can't disguise themselves? While we are at it we would need to ban all hats. Makeup and face paint would have to go too. People opposed to burkhas have singled out one aspect of another culture to target, even though it is less used for deception than other methods.
So you were uncomfortable as you could not identify the individual? but as stated, you can identify the individual, even outside of the court environment. A practising Muslim women who has knowledge n understanding of the practice of wearing a niqab will be happy to declare their identity to another non-mahram (roughly meaning unrelated) female if there were any genuine security concerns (instead of security measures which 'only' targeted those of religious Islamic appearance). The difference with the balaclava is that the intention of the person would be to never reveal their identity. As another example, a person with a motorcycle helmet would be required to remove their helmet for identification purposes.
There is no requirement to weaken security measures; the measures can be the same (as long as they are not targeted for specific communities). Just how they are acted out is all that matters to ensure understanding for religious or non-religious people. Whether Muslim or not, the people of France will want to be tough on security, as long as it is fair for all.
The real it is very hard to take someone who is butthurt seriously, but I shall try. There have been cases of it. At no point did I say it wasn't stated in Islam, but those who haven't showed their face in court obviously doesn't follow the teachings. Also, when did I say anything about guns? Please don't make random, untrue assumptions. I do think guns should be banned. So, you're completely
Now back to an actual debate. Wdz, I never said anything about being scared of the cultural difference of it. I told you why I feel uncomfortable about it. I'm afraid you've not understood me. Why would I be completely fine with a hijab if that was the case? As I said, the burqa disguised z persons identity. It's in a way, a balaclava. I feel the same way towards the burqa as I do a balaclava. Not many people are keen on weakening security measures for religious reasons.
look at how retarded you are wierdo. you want guns to not be banned because the person using them is at fault but you want the burqa to be banned even though its the man-who-impersonates-a- woman's fault. hypocrites. these cases are also very rare and not only that but islam also says that you have to show your face for identification in court you idiot.
And why does the burqa "scare" you? how have you developed this fear? Is it purely down to differences in culture and background?
Based on the peer accepted, Islamic scholarship on Islamic jurisprudence, it is acceptable as a Muslim women with a veil, or face covering, to remove the covering when providing testimony in court, or have been declared in front of a judge whether for or against her. This, like many other examples, are acceptable out of necessity. If an individual women rejects calls for her to remove her veils, then we must consider the it's necessity, and if required, she must have the opportunity to fully understand the requirement from a clearly understandable islamic perspective, and then be allowed to do so without her having to go beyond what she feels she needs to
A burqa and a hijab is different. A nun wears a hijab and if I don't care about hijabs, regardless of religion. it's the niqab or the burqa that scares me, because we don't know who's under there as we cannot identify them. Or what they have underneath. There have been court cases where the defendant under the burqa was actually a man! I don't know how true this is, but feel free to Google it and correct me if I'm wrong.
But as I said, I don't agree with the banning of the burqini nor do I in anyway think it is good to force a woman undress, I just presented (poorly) the other side of the argument, as everyone seemed to take one side and where's the fun in that?
and what does that have to do with anything? these are not saudi citizens coming into France and being served a taste of their own medicine....these are french Muslims who, like other french citizens, should have the freedom to wear whatever they want
Another thing I find annoying is this idea about not conforming to French secular values? What the heck does that mean, when they themselves are completely disregarding their own secular positions and beliefs on certain freedoms?
These "concerns" that you hear are typical scaremongering rhetoric which is being used to brainwash the masses of sheep in society. It is extremely unfortunate.
How is banning an item of clothing which is being used to merely maintain modesty, in any way going to solve these supposed issues? It's completely absurd
Regarding your security concerns, would you feel equally uncomfortable about a nun wearing their religious clothing?
It needs to be realised that these sorts of incidences and issues are being created to nurture an already growing irrational fear amongst the population to create an "us" against "them" environment, which creates instability like we have already seen in some instances.
The main concern of Westerners are the fact there are so many immigrants coming in and their scared their culture will change. like, churches knocked down or transformed into mosques, people not speaking English, "unwestern" clothes. These are the complaints I here from people. I don't agree with it, I'm just giving you the reasons as to why they would think banning it would be good. I'm an immigrant myself, so I'm not a big fan of all these rules. I for one couldn't care less what others choose to wear but I would be uncomfortable with a woman wearing a burqa due to security reasons. Similarly, I would be uncomfortable if a person was wearing extremely revealing clothes.
wierdo, saudi arabia is the center of the religion of islam. since islam heavily emphasises modesty, why the f*** would they let some slags walk around in bikinis? nevermind a society where men and women are segregated even when they are dressed, why would they allow it in the geographical CENTER of islam? also in dubai white women are there sunbathing in bikinis on the beach everyday. what do you think the response would be if dubai police started arresting these women, fined them, and forced them to wear burkas? Dubai police have more reason to arrest women in bikinis and force them to cover up than these french fags have to arrest women who DO cover up. i just dont get it, this slanted eyed pervert doesnt understand that OVER EXPOSURE is the problem, not decent cover.
@TheProudWeirdo - in response to your questions, most likely not, but that is a issues solely with Saudi Arabia. But are you justifying the implementation of the bans by France from the state restrictions on freedoms implemented by the Saudi state?
Why would you implement laws which imitate those states which we ourselves are against?
The freedoms of religions, expression and belief that we uphold in our nations are aspects of our society which we should continue to uphold
The key points we should be discussing are about what the underlying agenda is behind these bans? Creating divisions? inciting and nurturing irrational fears and hatred against those who are "different"? Creating diversions to distract people from the real corruption in society?
So what you are saying is that you disagree with the rules in other countries and want to implement similar rules targeting different people in place to punish them? You do get that French women wearing burkinis aren't making policy in other countries right? How does targeting them with nation wide dress codes alienating them help anyone or anything?
Okay, before social justice warriors get on my ass, I'm for equality. Everything is a two way street. You give and you get. Yes?
The main problem most people have, for an example, in the UK is that women, Muslim, Sikh whatever can dress as they would like to, but can a British woman go to Saudi Arabia and dress the way she wants to on a beach? No. Would it be okay to a ton of Christian immigrants to go to Saudi and build a church there? No. Or have their own scheme of "Christian law" cause they disagree with the laws of the country.
Would someone wearing a full body swimsuit be told to get off their beaches and be fined?
They are trying ever so hard to demonise the Muslim community, and use whatever BS reason to justify it. And then when Muslims want to show the ever so slightest amount of dissatisfaction, it suddenly become portrayed as outrageous, uncivilised, animalistic etc.
and then the finger pointing begins, and it's only in one direction
france has already been attacked in paris and shit and then they pull off a move like this? its like theyre purposefully trying to isolate the muslim community so they dont feel apart of the country they were born in anymore.
I've seen photos of a bunch of nuns standing on a beach and no one was up in arms about that.
unfortunately those retards dont understand that women who cover up wont go to the beach anymore because of this. islam has a strict code on modesty. many of these women cover up very modesrly instead of cousins, relatives etc. theu would never dress like slags infront of random people just so that they could walk on the beach or swim. they simply wouldnt go anymore. these ******s are hell bent on allowing women to kill children inside their wombs but dont want them to be able to cover up modestly and go to the beach. as it is, many muslim families dont go to beaches where there is a lot of bikini women and shirtless men etc because it isnt a family friendly modest environment. i can understand the issue with people not covering enough but whats the problem with them covering up properly? how the f*** is it against french values? since when did france, a man made nation built on top of beheading kings have a fixed value set? The only thing that french social policy towards religious dressing has shown is that the politicians are sick pervs. the main religion in the country is catholicism, Mary covered up top to bottom. wtf is wrong with these morons?
I think France does not understand Islamic culture as they see it as opressive and demeaning for certain activities. They simply want people to enjoy the beach without religous traditions that complicate that.