The debate "Greed is Not the only way to Motivate People" was started by
February 11, 2020, 7:58 am.
46 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 12 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Nemiroff posted 6 arguments to the agreers part.
Anonymous42, Nemiroff, Huzaifa, StrangeTime, Paula and 41 visitors agree.
Greetings, Allirix, shubham90012 and 9 visitors disagree.
i would like to point out that a society as i describe, although not impossible, would have a very different outlook then our own.
regarding progress, i disagree. greed focus may motivate the masses to produce, but it can motivate the decision makers to stall, such as holding on to the fossil fuels they are invested in and fight against newer technologies. this was also done in the war between am and fm radio, income inequality can also be holding us back and many other ways i cannot come up with off the top of my head. without money many may pursue passion projects with amazingly beneficial results.
grunt work is a concern, and perhaps with money not ruling the world grunt work can replace fines like for traffic tickets. or more realistically rather than replacing greed, with can add other qualities into the mix like simply having a culture that rewards risky masterpieces instead of safe mediocre, where the major creators take great pride in their work rather then meeting a deadline. we can still also have money in the mix but not forget about other motivators.
as i said money (and fear) are easy motivators, but inefficient because they are indirect. unlike pride or love for the trade, it is easy to distract and demotivate once an arbitrary to the task need is relieved. they are easy but weak.
I do agree that it would get boring, as I'm sure we all know from personal experience. But, I don't believe that people would strive to progress society in nearly the same capacity if it were not for personal gains, such as money. And, even further, nobody would want to do the grunt work. Currently, I do warehouse work but if I didn't have to worry about money, there's no way I would keep doing that; then there would be no one helping deliver packages, supply them, etc. That, actually, might be an even bigger criticism: who would do the grunt work? Yes, in several decades, technology may be a to do much of the grunt work, but even then there will be maintenance that we will still have to do, etc. If I don't have to worry so much about money, though, I'm not doing grunt work.
rather, the focus on greed may be due to how easy it is to influence and manipulate. however i feel we have gone to far. corporations dominate our economy, and their philosophy tends to maximize profit by harnessing the consistency of mediocrity.
if things were simply given, would you spend decades melting into your couch?
i certainly agree, as a long time full time worker plus school after work, i would certainly go lazy for a year or 2... but dont you think that would get super boring?
other motivators are similar to the things that you mentioned: pride, love.
one can be proud of his work, for example struggling to make a.masterpiece even if it cuts into profits.
or love for ones work, like the french impressionist artists who refused to do old style paintings on commission but had to paint napkins so the cafe wouldnt charge them for their coffee.
sure in our modern capital oriented society this may be hard to fathom, but it isnt something that completely inhuman, has existed before, and can exist again. small time businesses owners and artisans are much more open to the idea of feeling proud in the quality of their for purely personal reasons (pride, not just a business decision). but corporations have found consistent mediocrity to be financially smart and that's all they care about. i worry what that will do or already has done to our culture.
greed (and also fear now that buff mentions it) are horribly ineffective motivators because they are indirect. find a different source of stuff or protection and all motivation instantly vanished. you most likely never cared for the work, just the paycheck.
@Allirix - Not having to live with the shame of not saving others' lives when that was your job and duty (and something you're trained to do), also you were probably gonna die anyways, might as well die honorably and be remembered well.
@Nemiroff - When you put it that way, then I would have to say that my "selfless selfishness" doesn't apply. But, as far as progress is society, what else would you say would be a motivator other than granting a better living situation? The only reason i want money is so i can get better things which contribute to my better living situation. If i have to work harder for more money, then I'm gonna work harder until I'm content with what I have. But, if things are simply given, then there's little reason to work harder.
Obviously money is not the only thing that contributes to a good life/living situation, but I would say that it is a large factor (i.e. house (shelter), car (easier and comfortable transport), food (sustenance), common comforts, etc.)
What about jumping on a grenade to save everyone around you? I find it hard to believe an act like that is motivated just by internal gratification.
the "selfishness" you describe (a depressing school of thought i do not subscribe to) would be closer to pride (also a sin) then greed. greed involves the desire for earthly possessions.
this was meant to be a critique of capitalism and the right wing belief that without the motivation of money most people would wallow in laziness (kinda like in the movie Wall-E)
even someone with the most bleak outlook on humanity couldn't agree with this. If nothing else, fear is also a motivator that has nothing to do with greed, but is highly effective.
How are you defining "greed"? I would say that all good acts can be boiled down to internal gratification because we have evolved to often prefer altruism. For example, I often volunteer at homeless shelters, but I recognize that I only do it because I enjoy it. I enjoy helping people, and I think most of us do. Luckily, much of what I enjoy (i.e. volunteer work) also helps others, and it's their gratification that I enjoy. I would say that is, what I call, "selflessly selfish". And, I would call that a form of greed
to the, so far, 1 disagree. you have a very low valuation of humanity. i know this is a longshot, but would you care to comment?