The debate "Has Obama ruined the United States" was started by
September 21, 2015, 8:57 pm.
By the way, bigB is disagreeing with this statement.
25 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 48 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
AstroSpace posted 1 argument, Alex posted 35 arguments, goldfox1987 posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
bigB posted 12 arguments, historybuff posted 22 arguments, PsychDave posted 10 arguments, Safooma1977 posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
Alex, AstroSpace, drumman22, goldfox1987, kahala, SirJakeR, Bxat9, carltonlasy, Hitmenjr, opinionsvsfacts, Dysfunctional, KicknRush and 13 visitors agree.
bigB, historybuff, Moo1, PsychDave, sloanstar1000, William, Jclavinm, fabby, xbulletwithbutterflywingsx, pajrc1234, Yuki_Amayane, gabriel, ariel22, sageuraeus, Tiger1738, Safooma1977, Triz and 31 visitors disagree.
No, people do
No, he said you shouldn't destabilize other governments. That is what caused ISIS to be able to rise to power. Fighting ISIS is just trying to clean up the mess you made of the area after you removed a government because you didn't like them.
You still haven't said what you want to happen with Russia. Many nations are trying to combat Russian expansion through political and economic means already. Are you saying that you want the US to launch an attack of Russia?
Historybuff said we should not control people in other countries. ISIS is made of people on other countries. He says we should let ISIS control themselves.
Russia currently poses the greatest global threat to the United States, according to the man slated to be President Barack Obama's top military adviser.
Russia has threatened the US with war. Let's ignore them, or a least wait for them to blow something up. Maby it will be us.
I don't remember historybuff saying that. He said America was not the world police, and that you shouldn't destabilize other countries, but I don't remember him saying you shouldn't fight ISIS or other real threats.
Because a war with Russia is an abysmal idea since they are a nuclear power. As to the Iran deal, what would you prefer? You are criticising Obama for being in one conflict and for not being in another.
Obama is fighting ISIS with the support of the rest of the world. Of he attacked Iran alone he would be no better than Bush. More honest, but no better.
fist sentence should be "just stating facts, HistoryBuff says we should not go into other countries"
Just stating we should not go into other countries. Also why does Obama not try to stop iran from making nuclear weapons to destroy isreal, or respond to Russia. why just ISIS.
The creation of a power vacuum in the middle east allowed ISIS to grow into what it is now. That's on Bush. Are you advocating that the US should not have moved to combat ISIS now?
No. Obama instead of cleaning up bombed 3 more countries, sent more troops, and raised the debt. He did sign a deal with Iran that they could inspect themselves for nuclear weapons and the us cannot. So I guess you can call that cleaning up.
You asked for an example of the US destabilizing a developing country, which historybuff provided. That is what started the discussion.
So your argument is that a global recession and cleaning up the mess Bush made of the Middle East is Obama's fault?
Look down to my facts about Obama's first quarters and the wars he started. And the debt he raised 7 trillion dollors, the money the spent, a world record.
BigB lost with HistoryBuff not me.
So since your argument fell apart and you were soundly beaten in your argument you will now retreat into unsupported statements of your belief? That is hardly beneficial to a debate.
Obama has done the best he could with a bad global economy, an unstable international situation, and constant sabotage from people within his own country. He has not been the most effective president in history, but he has done quite a bit to clean up the mess Bush left on his way out.
Congrats on knowing your history. Doesn't change the fact Obama ruined america.
So since I have proven I'm right. I am a history buff. please bother to look things up before being insulting.
diem was appointment by bao dai because the Americans pressured for his appointment. The french protested saying he was incompetent and a fanatic. either way south Vietnam was never a democracy and that is because the Americans refused to allow it.
you're right about Guatemala, totally right.
Diem was not installed by the US, he had some support of the US. The French didn't pull out of Vietnam until '56. How can the US install Diem when South Vietnam was still technically ruled by another country
He has set world records in each of those categories ? the most spending ever; the most entitlement spending ever; the most regulations and cost of regulations ever; the most debt ever created in world history
Bush did not do any of these. Is Obama really this stupid or does he purposely want to destroy the US.
That was all GDP stats
who would have thought the biggest threat to america would be our own president? not me till met Obama.
Obama?s seven first quarters as president are at a combined average of negative 0.43%. Obama is the only president in the history of Americas economic measurement to do this. Bush had 1.7 this is still bad but not negative.
Also Obama is the first president in history to have 4 negative first quarters.
Countries bombed: Obama 7, Bush 4. true fact
Yemen he started the war, not bush.
read this he started wars that Bush did not start there is a difference in a small invasion to help people and a war. Obama instead of decreasing the number of troops increased them.
What wars are they in that are Obama's fault?
The US being involved in multiple wars because of Obama is another reason Obama ruined the US.
Obama certainly had a part to play. So did bush. by destabilizing Iraq he created a huge area for them to operate in and gave them huge numbers of recruits.
You say the US causes these world problems. ISIS for example rose under Obama. So if the US is responsible than the us pres should be responsible.
The millions of dead people, torture victims, and political prisoners who suffer from American interference would laugh at your idea of most world problems being inside the US. or at least they would if they weren't dead, dismembered, or being tortured for daring to speak against an American pupet state.
Seems like most world problems before Obama were outside the US. Now most problems are inside the US.
Please check the facts before challenging my knowledge of history.
The CIA backed the overthrow of the democratically elected Guatamalan government in 1954. South Vietnam was not democratic. Diem was installed by the Americans. all the other leader came to power by military coup. America reneged on their promise to have an election in the entire country (north and south) cause they didn't want to lose.
Might want to change your name, history is not your greatest subject
South Vietnam was a democratic government, supported by the US
What was the date we invaded Guatemala?
The royally messed up Vietnam. they refused to allow them to have a democracy after agreeing to it. they cancelled the elections and ended up bombing the country flat. they overthrew a democratically elected government in Guatamala and subjected them to decades of military coups and repression.
Ok, Vietnam was a colony of France and lost it to the Communist Vietnamese, and doing to the fear of communist rule we invaded (all because of politics).
USSR was a huge nation, they had taken land during WW2 and more territory after WW2 during the Korean War. I mean do you think under Communist rule it was better?
Give me an example of when the US messed up a stable developing country. The US tries to help territst ruled countries. This rarely works cause it is a lose lose with territsts.
No. America did not support Assad. they supported the coup before him. they also supported the creation of ISIS before it was ISIS. they wanted to undermine Asad by creating a Sunni state.
yes, we did fund them when the USSR ruled Afghanistan. We gave them weapons and money to fight the Soviets.And with Syria I do not think we put al-Assad in power, ISIS started in Syria then spread to Iraq. But this organization wants to kill everybody who does not believe in Islam
the difference is that after we 2 the other colonialists got out of imperialism. America started ramping up. this is how the Vietnam war happened. it's how the Shaw of Iran was installed. it's how Guatamala suffered decades of military rule. all of it because of American interference in a foreign country. they supported Saddam Hussein. then they turned around and deposed him turning Iraq into a brutal war zone ever since. when America gets involved in a developing nation, death and destruction ensues.
With territsts it is a loose loose nothing helps. they are stubborn and extreme. The only way to rid them is to defeat them in war. If not they will defeat us as they have tried and threatened to do.
I mean go back to the Spanish-American war. We got the Philippines from them (former territory). Many countries have done it, you act like we are only one's. How did expand West and be "sea to shining sea". Great Britain almost took over the world, along with Spain when the America's were being explored. You can't just point to one country and say 'oh they're evil'. Like I said before history repeats itself.
With regards to Iraq, terrorism has been in the world long before the US came about. Terrorism has been prevalent throughout history. Look up the definition of terrorism, it's not just associated with the US
America helped create these terrorist groups. They funded and armed al Qa'ida. they pushed for the creation of a sunni state in Syria. this turned into ISIS. America is the root cause if these groups. Getting more involved only fuels their hatred and makes the problem worse.
There are many territsts groups in Iran. The US wanted to help those not in territsts groups survive, and keep the territsts groups from rising. the plan failed, we have ISIS. But the war may have delayed ISIS and stopped other territsts groups. These groups also hate and are killing catholics. what did they do to them nothing but believe different.
Since WW 2 Americans have taken over as world imperialists. they have installed dictatorships in many countries which usually ends in disaster. Iran is an excellent example. The US installed a dictator they could control who was hated by their people. As a result the people turned to extreme solutions to solve these American made problems. Now you have a religious government that despises America. That is why there is more and more terrorism. because Americans won't stop trying to dominate the world.
I connect this with what's going on today; after September eleventh we went to war against terrorism, but as time went by we had a massive military and we decided to use that military against Iraq. History repeats itself constantly, I think that we are not doing anything different than what many other countries/nations have done in the past
exactly countries like Russia, iran or China (less extreme) want to get rid of the US so we do not help.
example WWII we did not do anything the US wanted to stay away Japan bombed us to try and destroy our navy to better their chance to win. The US ended up helping and winning.
The only reason countries have not used weapons on other countries is because they are scared of the US. If the US didn't help the world would blow themselves up. And we would be greatly affected.
I have to ask, since of your name; do you think that if we had never entered WW2 that we would be speaking German? Of course we entered because of pearl harbor but after we declared war on Japan, Germany declared war the US; we never really needed to fight Germany
You can not be in the world and not be apart of it. History had shown that the US can not have the policy of isolationism, we have always been drug into a war regardless of trying to keep out. The United States is one of the most powerful countries in the world, we have a responsibility to other countries that can't defend themselves and to help. We do help, we are one of top countries that help out third world countries. We have done more in humanitarian aid than many other countries.
They are going to kill Americans there are currently Americans dying in the middle east, yet you say let them die. Death to america is not just a threat it is reality. Iran is making nuclear weapons to destroy Isreal, let them blow up you argue. Not our problem you say. America is not the world police, you said.
Russia nuclear arsenal
Military stockpile of approximately 4,500 nuclear warheads
These include nearly 1,800 strategic warheads deployed on missiles and at bomber bases
Another 700 strategic warheads are in storage along with roughly 2,700 non-strategic warheads
Putin has apparently authorized the testing of ground-launched cruise missiles that violate the 1987 Treaty on Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces. Let them blow anyone up including us is what you are saying.
I didn't say don't care about what happens in other countries. But America is not the world police. They do not have the right to invade other countries for no reason. People saying death to America is not a crime against you. them hating you does not give you the right to kill them. especially when the reason they hate you in the first place is your fault. What with all the bombing, murdering and establishing dictators. America has never stopped being an imperialist power. They just like to set up dictators to run things for them. Surprisingly the people being ruled by the dictators don't like that.
You say we should not get involved in other countries. Obama as commander in chief can get all military home. You don't care what happens in other countries.
Obama didn't start any of those wars. You're blaming him for being at war when other people started them. debt increases tend to happen when other people start wars and you're forced to fight them. They also happen when markets crash. Neither of which are Obama's fault. coal power plant produces massive amounts of pollution. Even if you don't believe in global warming pollution is still bad. the Republicans have ended any ability for the government to function. Executive orders are the only way that he can do anything at all. He's trying to do the job he was elected to do despite the Republicans using partisan politics to paralyze the government. And the President does have the right to do so.
list of Obama "accomplishments"
1. obamacare - doubling and trippling prices while driving down care.
2. more wars, we are at war with more countries than at any other time. air strikes in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen.
3. debt doubled in first term, increased exponentially second term.
4. war on coal, estimated one coal plant shuts down every week due to ramped up epa puppets, raising electric costs.
5. executive orders, when congress shuts him down, like it or not, he just pulls out his pen and oversteps the constitutional limit of his authority. I mean how else can he "fix" amerika.
6. tax persecution, Christian non profit...not anymore. tea party member, audit. republican? no write offs for you.
7. gov shut down - I don't like you so no one can see the monuments any more....yeah cuz that is a good expense.
I am not saying bush was all peaches and cream, he was a low life too, but I'm pretty sure obozo took up the challenge to be worst president ever and for right now he is winning that game.
Obama has not made progress, he has made negative progress. All the things he has done is bad so we try not to let him do more bad things.
But if you hobble someone you cannot complain when they can't win the race. Obama has been blocked at every turn then criticised for not making enough progress. You cannot reasonably have it both ways.
saying that he would have made things worse is not saying that he has ruined America. So that really does not support your argument and any way. but the Republicans blocking everything he's tried to do does prove that is not really his fault that things didn't get accomplished. any attempt he made trying improve the situation with blocked by partisan politics.
Why would we let Obama make the country worse. if we had it would be some of our falt. If you at work have someone say to you "I'm going to spent money on this project that could be illegal and is most likely not to work" would say ok or would you say no. I would say no. We try to say no to Obama because we do not want our country worse.
From your own description, it isn't that he has ruined it, it is that he failed to protect and improve it. That is fair, but also by your own admission the Republicans have been actively blocking everything he attempted to do, meaning the fault at least partially lies with them also. Had he been allowed free reign, and the economy got worse, you could blame him, but as it is all you can say is that in your opinion his policies would have made it worse, and that is impossible to prove since he was not permitted to try.
He has ruined it but not destroyed it. We can still be fixed. Let's say stupid America's vote a liberal Democrat who likes Obama, and they do the same things, then our country might get ruined beyond repair.
Also you and I may have different ideas of ruined.
I never said he was a great president. but saying he ruined the united States is very over dramatic.
He has not done anything to help this country liberal ideas such as spending money you don't have does not help.
Have you seen what he wants to pass? more spending. He did nothing when we had the oil spill, and when Canada wanted to do the pipeline he refused. this would have created jobs, lowered gas prices and Gotten us less involved in the middle east.
How so? you cripple him so he can't do anything, then criticize him for not getting anything done. How is he supposed to help the country, which you seem to think he isn't doing, when the Republicans won't allow him to pass anything?
You complain that he doesn't prevent or fix problems, then pat yourself on the beach for tying his hands. How does that make any sense?
Obama wants to spend more money. the senate, rebublicans who support bush want to not spend money. Obama thinks spending is going to help america.
it is a good thing we block him.
He inherited two wars and a huge economic crisis. How do you cut spending while at war? if he had you'd be complaining he hadn't supported the Army. The food stamps is because the market and housing industries collapsed before he stated. Lots of people lost their jobs because greedy bankers crashed the system. how is that Obama's fault? The wars bush started are still going on. well one of them. Obama managed to end the other. other than simply abandoning Iraq after bush had blown it apart he had no choice but to go deeper into the mistakes of Bush to try to fix them. Obamacare is virtually the only thing he managed to get done through the republican blockade. look back at the number of times the Republicans blocked him. especially after they took control of the Senate. they block every single thing he does. no President can effect change when he cannot get through petty partisan obstacles.
7 trillion dollors in debt is not the president's falt nor is a huge increase in food stamps and people without homes. please explain. also explain how Bush 7 years ago makes Obama do certain things today. If Obama cannot things that he promised then he is a weak pres, or a a big lie. The rebublicans unfortunately did not block Obama care, so your statement of Republicans blocking Obama is false.
Pretty well everything you blame Obama for came from Bush's presidency. so who really "ruined" America?
The economy is hardly Obama's fault. He took office just after the worst economic disaster since the great depression. he inherited two wars and a complete mess of budget when he took office. The spending trends Obama was forced to continue he inherited from George Bush. Your other economic stats are pointless because you are describing an large recession. it wouldn't matter who the president was. after a huge crash those things were going to happen. blame greedy bankers. He was wrong about how much America's exports would rise. that's hardly a lie, its an incorrect guess. Not like say, lying to get your country into an illegal war like Bush. Gun control and most other things he wanted to accomplish were blocked by Republican partisan politics. They would block virtually anything to try to make him look bad. The troops in Afghanistan are not just American. they are NATO troops left to advise and assist the Afghan army. Because spending that much time, blood and money on them and then abandoning them is stupid.
He only increased the debt by over 7,000,000,000,000, or 7 trillion dollors. the number of Americans receiving food stamps remains 45 percent higher than when the president first took office, and the rate of home ownership has dropped by 3.2 percentage points, to the lowest point in nearly 20 years.
He lies In January 2010, the president said in his State of the Union address, ?We will double our exports over the next five years.? That hasn?t come close to happening. we are only at a 35% increase. Although Obama campaigned on a promise to re-impose the expired ?assault weapons ban,? that has not been accomplished. Some people I. oticed wanted gun control to be a certain type of guns, so did Obama who has done nothing about his promise. The U.S. formally ended its combat mission in Afghanistan at the end of 2014, but thousands of U.S. troops remain there. this makes no sense.
He signed a deal with Iraq, a deal that Iraq wants. A deal to have Iraq inspect themselves for nuclear weapons, he has failed to take action on imigration, and when the big oil spill happened he did not have a plan, yet denied offers of help from other countries.
America has been ruined under Obama making China the wealthiest and strongest country in the world. America is ruined, but not behind repair. We need a strong next pres to fix this mess.
So far 6 of 8 people disagree with you that Obama "ruined" America. so you should explain it.
Explain to me how he has ruined America? he certainly isn't the best President of all time. but he hasn't really done much at all.
However I open the argument on which one would believe would be a better political ideology, conservatism or liberalism? (minus the definition of them both)
Barack H. Obama has not made it better, given the many chances he's had on foreign policy and domestic issues. However, George W. Bush did not do the same thing. Both are beheld by their contributer s and have to support a political agenda based on certain contributions. I asked the question because I saw someone post a political type discussion and thought it would be an interesting debate
For those who disagree
the US is ruined. Who was the last pres. Obama. Was the US ruined before him. NO
Beyond belief. I'm with you brother.