The debate "Hell exists and for the ones asking why it's a motivation for you to do good. RewardAndConsequence" was started by
August 13, 2019, 2:26 pm.
27 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 21 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Edmqnd posted 9 arguments to the agreers part.
Nemiroff posted 8 arguments, jrardin12 posted 3 arguments to the disagreers part.
Edmqnd, MADHURA and 25 visitors agree.
jrardin12, zeref, Hopetown27, itzmeboi, codyray16 and 16 visitors disagree.
I get it from the Bible. Genesis says that one day the seed of Eve would crush the serpents head. This is the first promise of the coming of the Messiah, which in Greek is translated to Christ. The Old Testament saints were counted righteous because of their faith in the coming Messiah. Isaiah 53 tells us what would happen to the Messiah and what his purpose for coming was.
First of all where do you get that from and second of all if a person came before Jesus salvation will they go to hell? If no why not if yes why?
Depends on their faith in what Jesus would one day do for them to save them.
jrardin12 if you could answer my question that would be great, will the people that came before Jesus salvation go to hell, will people that didn't know about christianity or anything like it go to hell? It's simple.
Nemiroff, I know what the no true scotsman fallacy is. But you claimed they're devout muslims and I showed you statistics debunking that claim, devout muslims means they follow the teachings of the quran and hadith, quran says dont kill, how are they following it, the Quran says dont hurt, how are they following it and etc. Seems like you have very little knowledge about what a debote muslim really is, look at the prophet muhammed (SAW) for a devite muslim and compare them with these scumbags. And you're also committing a no true scotsman fallacy by saying my interpretation isn't right when comparing it to them. Let's say there are 16 thousand suicide bombers, there aren't but that's still 0,006% of the Muslim population so dont claim a 0,006% to be debote compared to the rest and if they really are sevite compare their actions with the scripture!
but they are devote muslims. your complaint is that they have a different interpretation then you. that can make them wrong in your opinion, but it still leaves them as objectively muslim. they believe in and worship allah. they quote select passages from the Quran and haddiths. before you respond, please google the "no true scotsman fallacy".
hebrews is a book of the new testament. it has nothing to do with what jewish people believe.
in the middle ages, thousands of devote christians killed thousands of other devote christians who didnt agree with them on how to be christian.
also Hitler didn't kill those christians for being christian, much as the devote christians of young usa killed devote christians of england.
Hitler was not a devout Christian. He persecuted Christians.
Hebrews says that those who believed in what the Messiah would do would be counted for their righteousness. The OT faith was in what the Messiah would do. The NT is faith in what the Messiah has done.
First of all If Hitler really with 100% certainty believed in heaven or hell I dont believe he would have done those things or maybe he would, dont know. Now you claim ISIS are devote muslims, substantiate that claim, they strictly go against the prohibitions of the quran and sunnah and they know so the only reason they do these atrocities is because of politics. Robert Pape studied every suicide bombing from 1985-2005 and concluded it had nothing to do with religion but politics. Gallup made the biggest muslim Pole and 93% of them condemned terrorism and terrorist groups like ISIS, al Qaida and etc except for the 7% that cited political reasons. Usama Bin Laden was asked on an interview why he goes against islamic prohibitions and is answer was "The law's not set in stone" so he believed he could reinterpret the teachings to his own liking. Don't claim they're devoted muslims!
judaism is very much about deeds. sacrificing the lamb does not absolve you of sin, its a gift to god, or more like a demand fulfilled with no bonus but big consequences if you dont (what a good god).
can you please provide me the quote you are referrencing, but do remember the folly of interpreting a religion based of cherry picked lines (isis, tithes, etc)
i can tell you one thing, while every christian language has a word for bad deed (sin, a word they obsess over), they have no word for good deed. judaism does, mitzvah. mitvahs (good DEEDS) are a huge part of the jewish faith, which runs counter to christianity which turned from a religion of love and tolerance into a religion of fear and self preservation.
@edmqnd is there an arabic word dedicated to good deed? bad deed?
plenty of pious people committed atrocities. hitler was a devote christian. isis are devote muslims. all of these mosters lived in a world where hell was known and many of them believed it in. it didnt stop them.
Jrardin12 I've always wondered what will happen to the people that came to this earth before jesus gave you your salvation, you believe in original sin so wont they automatically go to hell?
So if we can for example deter people from harming others like hitler, stalin, mao, etc. If they actually believed in the Quran and hell do you think they would do those things? No. It's to deter people from doing bad actions and what's wrong with that?
Actually, Judaism was not about deeds. It was the blood of the lamb that took away their sin, a symbol of what the Messiah was to do for them. The book of Hebrews explains this perfectly.
I agree and disagree. Hell definitely exists. However, Ephesians, and other places in the Bible say salvation is not by works. Also Hell was not created for man, but for the Devil and his angels. Man chooses to go there by his own free will by rejecting God's free gift of salvation.
then why the need for hell?
OR have a hell, but dont tell us about it. then good people will do good and get just reward, while bad people will get their just punishment instead of falsifying their way into paradise.
i think judaism got it right with minimal mention of the afterlife and mostly a focus on deeds. as opposed to christianity which seemingly threw deeds out the window. especially some protestants.
But I don't believe muslims do it in fear, sure that partially but I would do as much good I believe if I wasn't a muslim.
if im paying you to do good, do you think that is the same as someone choosing to do good without incentive? because it is the good thing to do?
Nemiroff, the point is that the idea of eternal punishment, hell is used as a motivation for you to do good and be good so that you will enter paradise.
JDAWG9693 according to who? weren't you a moral nihilist? And again it's a motivation for you to make good and compete to enter paradise.
carrot and stick will make people act more good, but it will not make them good. they act good for selfish reasons.
Infinite punishment for a finite crime is demonstrably unjust