The debate "I am reformed Christian. if you've got questions or you want to try to convert here is the place" was started by
December 22, 2017, 10:25 pm.
5 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 10 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
MCFission posted 11 arguments to the agreers part.
Yiyi posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
MCFission, judas and 3 visitors agree.
Against_eu, chasediedrich1, Yiyi, NPW and 6 visitors disagree.
no, not committing sin is not enough to get you to salvation. But it should exempt you from damnation.
what should earn you salvation is the doing of good deeds, not just abstaining from bad ones.
I understand original sin, however I don't see how having that sin makes people hate god.
You are right, he wasn't tolerant of all, specifically those who abused power and made the lives of others miserable. however those with personal vices he had nothing but love and tolerance for. examples are his treatment of the prostitute. also:
"I give you a new commandment: love one another. Just as I have loved you, you must also love one another" (John 13:34)"
the bible is useless without belief. it is a guide for those who accept it, but is easily dismissed by those who do not. even during the times of the bible, god spoke to but a handful of prophets, while the vast majority had to make their choice on faith. as for knowing what is good, that is built in, it's our conscience. im sure god has the ability to make his presence clearly known and guarantee full acceptance. he does not do so.
the sin of adam corrupted all humans so that we all by nature are sinful. Basically after the fall all people excpet christ sin and condemn themselves.
you position that jesus only prrached tolerance and love and not the is just plain unbiblical. the sermon on the mount has stuff about even hating your brother in your hesrt as condemning you.and jesus said that he came to bring a sword. jesus hates arrogant people and he loves humility which is why he is so hard againt the pharisees and soft to the taxcollectors and sinners. this is not because he condones their sin but because they are willing to repent. the whole of his life jesus preached repentance.so i dont understand how you got the idea that he only preached tolerance and love. he was tolerant of sime things and extremely intolerant of others. can you give me bible verses that support your claims about what he taught. also if god doesnt reveal himself to us so that we can do things of our own accord i assume then you deny the bibles veracity. how do we even know the is such a thing as good without the bible let alone what it is.
no im saying is it lossoble in theory to nevee sin your whole life and thus earn salvation?
I believe god has already helped us resist Satan. he has given us many tools including our mind, our gut instincts, and our conscious. rather than depraved, I believe we are born blessed... except for the very sick, maybe some of them too.
why does having a sin, especially one you don't remember make you hate god?
many people born into sin love god with all their hearts, still others simply don't believe he exists. are you saying that you by nature hate god as well?
all of the teachings of Jesus were seeking to make this world and this life better. to teach acceptance, kindness, forgiveness, and tolerance. a good god would want us to enjoy this world he created and do good out of our own free will. that is why he doesn't reveal himself. so that we can be good without a gauranteed payoff.
I don't believe god wanted us to obsesses over perpetual sins, as is practiced by far too many modern christians. Calvinism, with its total depravity, seems to be a more extreme version of what I feel is wrong with Christianity. these seem completely against the message of Jesus.
I believe you were simply asking for people who may seek to convert to your view, I would gladly continue this theological discussion, but I have a policy of not pushing matters of faith on the unwilling unless they are attacking a different view.
can people resist satan without the help of god.
all fallibg shirt means that by our own merit no one earbs salvation. that does not mean salvstion isnt given to anyone. everyone by nature hates god because of originsl sin and therefore all people naturally deserve condemnation. however christs work on earth allows people (the elect) to be saved despite their previous actions.
I told you the difference between the Almighty one over the throne and the diabolical Satan is that one befriends humans, but the latter doesn't. The enemy has no power to put you in hell, only power to lure you into opposing the one offering friendship. Titles mean things on both sides of the grave.
well, let me refine that last part. he can pick and choose whoever goes to heaven and that's fine. none of us are entitled by default to an eternal paradise. so a good god can grant permission to heaven at whimsy.
but damnation and eternal suffering cannot be the alternative to the equally whimsically selected innocents. that cannot be a good god imo.
if all fell short then none should be saved. that doesn't explain the selective salvation.
perhaps the concept is misunderstood, intending to say he already knows who will do good even before they are born (which raises some free will questions), but they will still do those actions as predicted.
otherwise this life is completely meaningless in the grand scheme, kinda like the loadscreen for our predetermined destination. In my honest opinion, a god who damns people regardless of merit cannot be a good god.
In the Bible, it is claimed that Jesus was asked what if 7 brothers were unable to attract any women except one. One after another they married her and all died. Jesus was asked which would get her as a wife once they reach heaven.
The answer provided in the Bible is misleading and harmful.
I am a Muslim so I have the best of information available, which states that there is a a sequel for wives a man gains whilst on the Earth.
All men in heaven are permanently gifted with happy wives, and this is by decree from the almighty one over the throne.
This situation caused by the Bible leads some men to believe the options on Earth are 0 wives, 1 wife, castration or transgenderism.
In actuality, there are women in Paradise who never came on the Earth because they are waiting to be with a man born here, yet travels there as the spouse bringing good news after taking a business trip.
if you get iritated by someone disagreeing with you i think this is probably not the app for you.
I know, but its not what i belive in and it made me irtated
also you dont obey god so that he will save you. because he saved you you obey him. much like you dont obey your parents so thay theu will take care of you (if you are in a functional home) you do because they already do.
okay here we go i guess.
total dprevity is in romans. for all have fallen short of the glory of god.
unconditional election is also romans and some other places too. for salvation is not of works ut is the gift of gid lest anyone should boast
limited atonement is anywhere where god judges people. the sheep and the goats. the desd branches etc.
irrestible grace is an extention of omnipotence and isaiah for he has declared the end from the beggining.
and persverance of the saints is a product of the holy spirit completing his perfect work in thd saints.
also not being based on the merit of people doesnt necessecetste rsndomness it just means that nothing special abouf what you do makes you elect it is purely gods decision to elect you.
alot of this is just the prerequisites to christianity. forgiveness is necessary because everyone is sinful.
its nota region. its a denomination of christianity.
Im a proud catholic.
Ithink that it is just a region plz stop as it make me feel irtated
those tenants sounds completely opposite to the teachings of Jesus. wasn't Jesus mostly teaching about forgiveness, redemption, and love? where did Calvin find these tenents in the bible?
and if your place in the afterlife is predetermined regardless of merit, and nothing you can do can can prevent him from saving you (if you were randomly chosen), then what's the point of being moral or not committing suicide to get straight to the paradise part?
well its complicated. the five basic points of clavinism are
all people are sinful in every part of their being
god chooses who he saves without regard to peoples merit
christ died to save the elect not everyone in the world
if you are elect you also want to be elect. that is if god elects you you cant prevent him from saving you
>perserverance of the saints
the elect will remain faithful to christ until their death
there is other stuff but calvin spent volumes enumerating everything so i wont try to summarize all his doctrine.
what separates Calvinists from other protestants?
where does jesus kick wives out of heaven? i am not familiar with him but i dont condone self castration. and why invest in what relationship? you will need to be a bit more precise for me to understsand what it is you are asking.
Why believe that Jesus kicked all the wives out of heaven?
Are you not familiar with Thomas Boston Corbett and his self castration?
What's the point in spending so much time, and effort on a relationship that's useless in the next round?
Mostly Calvinist. Not saying I know and undertsand all his theology but I am familiar with alot of it.
What do you mean by "reformed?"