The debate "In 2020 the US will go to war with Iran." was started by
January 1, 2020, 1:45 pm.
21 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 31 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
StrangeTime posted 3 arguments, historybuff posted 6 arguments to the agreers part.
jrardin12 posted 14 arguments to the disagreers part.
StrangeTime, rusianjudes, LitleTortilaBoy, historybuff, WyattTrull and 16 visitors agree.
jrardin12, Liam, Wolfie, MrShine, Nemiroff, Thandaza3, aspy and 24 visitors disagree.
Haha this is exactly what I thought too, but people also voted for trump and still support him so I'm still not sure. Either way I've just said one comment about this because I wanted to write out my opinion somewhere, deliberately not replying to what he said because he's a waste of space here.
are you guys still arguing with this "kid from Mexico who is obsessed with trump"? this guy is obviously some sort of min wage operative from Russia or N.korea spreading nonsense. its been 4 years, but they finally made it to this small debate community. he doesn't debate, he barely responds, and just pollutes the feed with sensational posts.
"the Iranian regime is evil"
Maybe so... but let's not forget who shot down an Iranian passenger plane carrying 280 civilians in the 80's.
If Trump demonstrated integrity I would trust him when he says the general was an imminent threat to US citizens. Unfortunately, Trump has demonstrated he lies about even the most basic things, so I have trouble taking his word on this. If I see proof this general was planning an attack on US citizens and Trump had no other choice, I'll agree he did the right thing. Otherwise this just looks disgustingly similar to the CIA Iranian coup in 1953 that poisoned us-iranian relations in the first place.
Source please. The US has not released any evidence at all that he has been responsible for any deaths. So I'm guessing you are quoting some right wing pundit who pulled that number out of their ass.
I don't know. The general is responsible for 600 American deaths. If that isn't an act of war I don't know what is.
Alot safer than they are today.
Let me ask you this @historybuff, if America hadn't killed the general, would Americans in the Middle East still be safe?
umm, you are aware that Iran does have an elected assembly right? They absolutely do have a say in their government.
I keep telling you, I don't think soleimani was a good person. I am not upset he is dead. But how he ended up dead is the problem. The fact that he was murdered by the american government is a HUGE problem that is going to get alot of good people killed. It makes peace much more difficult and strengthens the hand of hard liners in Iran.
And since you are sooooo concerned about the people of Iran the least you could do is be happy that the general who tortered and killed many Iranians is dead.
When I say Iran I am not talking about the people, I am talking about the government. Obviously, the people of Iran really don't have a say in their government.
The Iranian government is made up of lots of different people. Some of them are hardliners that want violence. Some of them are reformers that want peace. Painting them all as exactly the same, and all evil, is a massively overly simplified rational. People do this to dehumanize others so that they can justify whatever they want. IE it's fine to murder a diplomat because Iran is bad.
Why do I trust Iran was keeping to the deal? That's easy, because literally no one who knows about it says otherwise. Even trump's own government certified that they were keeping to their end of the deal. Monitors have regularly confirmed the deal was being followed.
When did I say I trust Iran? They are human, they will lie if it is in their interest to do so. But I don't trust the US government either. They have proven they will lie when it is in their interest to do so, including to start a war.
I do not paint an entire country as evil, but the Iranian regime is evil and the general killed was involved in terrorism even when the Iran deal was in effect. And again, on the Iran Deal, why do you trust that Iran was abiding by the Deal? You really trusted Iran? You don't trust Russia, but you trust Russias Ally?
I never said he was innocent. I said killing him was stupid.
Attacking an embassy could be an act of war. But Iran didn't attack an american embassy. Iraqi militia's did. And the US has provided no evidence Iran was involved.
Shooting down a drone that is illegally in your airspace is perfectly reasonable.
What US ships did they bomb? Is there any evidence they did that?
The sanctions are obviously america's fault, and trump's fault specifically. A path towards peace had been reached and trump blew it up for no reason. He then continuously increased tensions leading us to this point.
I am not on the side of a terrorist regime (neither the terrorist attacks of the US or Iran). I am on the side of peaceful co-existence. You want to paint an entire country as evil so you can justify doing whatever you want to them. That is a stupid position that inevitably leads to war and death.
when did he say he was innocent? what are you talking about?
Why do you pretend that this general was innocent when he has tortured and killed many Iranians and has killed many Americans and many more people around the globe. So bombing an embassy isn't an act of war? How about taking American hostages? How about taking down drones or bombing US ships. As for sanctions, that is not our fault it is an evil regimes fault. But glad to know that you are on the side of a terrorist regime.
America just committed an act of war. He was a general in the Iranian army and a member of the government. Dropping a bomb on him is no different that dropping a bomb on Pearl Harbor.
It could also be seen as an act of war against Iraq. Iraq had ordered the US to stop bombing in Iraq without Iraqi approval. They didn't tell the Iraqi's they were doing this.
If the US had done this to China or Russia, or if the Iranians had done this to the US, missiles would already be in the air. It will take slightly longer for Iran to plan and execute it's counter attack. But Americans are going to die because of this.
"What is different is that we finally paid blood for blood."
The US has been attacking Iran for decades. You blockage them from getting food and medicine. Countless Iranians have died because of the US. Why are pretending like you are somehow innocent in this? Why are you pretending that a murder that is guaranteed to trigger more violence is somehow a moral choice?
If by killing one Iranian means we are at war, then obviously Iran killing hundreds of Americans is an act of war. So, yes, Iran has been at war with the US for decades we just haven't responded. Like Nevelle Chamberlain who tried to appease Hitler while Hitler took over Europe.
No war has been started or will start. And if Iran kills more Americans it won't be surprising because they have been doing that for decades. What is different is that we finally paid blood for blood.
I'm not pro Iran, I'm anti-lies & propaganda to start a war that will kill hundreds of thousands of people. You should be too.
Uhh what? Iran is not at war with america (although it looks like trump is headed that way). In fact they signed a pretty significant treaty with america a few years ago. And until trump ripped it up they were holding up their end of it.
Why does treating another country as if they aren't demons from hell offend you so much? Iranians are human beings who have the same rights to life, liberty and happiness that you do. And america has consistently treated them like shit for decades. Maybe stop for a minute and think about this from their point of view. America is constantly attacking them. Blocking them from importing food or medicine. Bombing their friends and allies. Now they have murdered their most popular general for crimes they have provided no evidence Iran was even involved in. If you did you would see that the American side of this argument is insane and extremely aggressive.
@StrangeTime, I just want to remind you that Iran has been at war with the US since Jimmy Carter was president. But, I am glad to see you defend Iran who is the biggest exporter of terror against Americans in the world and a friend of Russia.
You're just regurgitating what the pentagon and people like Pompeo are saying - without any evidece at all, nada. If you just use your head for one second, does it make sense to you that the most powerful general in Iran would risk (or even bother) going into US infested Iraq to direct a fairly minor protest at a US embassy? The fact that people buy into this crap is silly beyond comprehension.
The war on Iran has been on the table for a long time. We saw the war drums and US propaganda machine beating hard towards the end of 2019, That's why I made this thread. A day or two later, this assassination happened. as far as i see it, war is now imminent.
Well, I am glad to see the Left jumping in to defend Iran. Way to go.
"They have already been striking for awhile. It is time to strike back."
The US government has provided no evidence that Iran has done anything. There have been attacks by other groups that hate america. These groups are allies of Iran. But there has been no evidence provided that Iran has attacked or killed any Americans recently.
"He was in Iraq to supervise the attack on our embassy."
There has been no evidence of this. The protests at the embassy were organized by shia militias that were allies of Iran. There is no evidence that iran ordered or had anything to do with those protests. For all you know Iran had nothing to do with it and the US is essentially declaring war on them.
He was in Iraq to supervise the attack on our embassy.
They have already been striking for awhile. It is time to strike back.
The US alleges he has done these things. They have provided no evidence it is true. The US has been blaming Iran for every single thing that happens in the middle east. For example, the US illegally bombed targets in Iraq against the orders of the Iraqi government. Protests sprung up against this illegal, unilateral, terrorist attack. The US blamed Iran for those protests. And to retaliate against Iran for the protests they showed no evidence Iran was involved in, they murdered a member of the Iranian government.
Even if the US government is correct and this general was as bad as they allege he was, this is still an insanely stupid thing to do. It forces Iran's hand. They have to strike back or they will look weak. It is a blatant provocation and arguably an act of war against Iran as well as a potential act of war against Iraq since they ordered the US to stop doing these things and the US continues to bomb Iraq anyway. The US is undermining their friends. They are guaranteeing that the hardliners in Iran will gain more power and that more US lives will be lost in the Iranian counter attack. There is literally no benefit to this terrorist attack.
I am sorry, but wasn't this general already doing those things before he was killed?
1- You're right. They won't declare war on the US. They bomb a US military base. Or give hezbollah weapons to fire at Israel. Or close the straights of Hormuz to massively disrupt the world's oil supply. They will retaliate. They have no choice. And then America will need to retaliate. And since America has already committed 1 act of war, the next one will likely be even worse.
2- Even if you did get rid of that regime, why would that be an improvement? America got rid of Iraq's government and it cost them trillions of dollars and created terrorist havens, civil wars and just death and chaos in general. Doing the same to Iran would make things much worse.
I doubt Iran will go to war. They don't have the money or the backing. But if they do that would be great. We could finally get rid of that regime.
Update, the US has now assassinated an Iranian general who was very popular and influential. This would be like if the Iranians murdered the US secretary of defense. It is a massive provocation that is almost guaranteed to trigger some kind of retaliation from Iran. I'd say war with Iran is much more likely today than it was yesterday.
Maybe 60/40 or 70/30.
I'd say the odds are like 50/50.
- Trump is an idiot and has no idea how to engage in diplomacy. So if tensions ratchet up, he will be completely incapable of stopping it even if he wanted to.
- Trump loves "strong men". He surrounded himself with generals and sucked up to dictators like Putin and Kim Jong UN. When a general tells him he needs to bomb iran he is likely to listen. He already came extremely close to triggering a war with them last year when he ordered an attack on iran but called it off last minute.
- Trump desperately needs to feed his "strong man" persona. Trump loves looking tough and strong. As it becomes increasingly obvious that his "tough on Iran" strategy is a dismal failure, he may feel he needs to look tougher.
- Trump will need a distraction. Between his impeachment, an economy that could slip into recession, his own laziness and inaction on most issue etc, he will definitely feel he needs to shift the narrative and distract the american people. One of the classic ways to do that is with a war. Iran is the most likely target if he goes that route.