The debate "Is God real or fake and why" was started by
January 8, 2018, 3:52 am.
17 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 7 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
dbrock posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
Nemiroff posted 4 arguments to the disagreers part.
dbrock, Ashes and 15 visitors agree.
Nemiroff and 6 visitors disagree.
"certainly one can find irrefutable proof of god in one's heart"
..No you can't. "Proof" means evidence. How can you have "evidence" that you can't share with others? Evidence is something that can be apparent to all. Not just one person. Or are you saying the way Christians live there lives, no longer disbelieving in the One True God, should be evidence to the whole world He is real? If the narrative of the Bible is logical, how can other narratives also be logical? Only the Bible tells us the Gospel. That God loves us and made it possible for us to have a personal relationship with Him. That all our sins can be washed away and we can live life forgiven. No other religion or creed offers this narrative which so logically solves the human problem of life.
certainly one can find irrefutable proof of god in one's heart, however I'm sure you've noticed the difficulty of communicating this evidence to those who haven't already found it themselves. there is no physical evidence pointing decisively at god. at best you have a logical narrative that is very possible, but so are other options.
It is good you know facts exist regardless if we have discovered them yet. No one can disprove the God of the Bible's existence and therefore atheism is an unobtainable position. Many atheists don't realize that. But you are wrong to say you can't know if God exists. He does. I know Him. A belief is not a guess. A belief has no evidence readily available. A belief can be factual. And all things factual are true. And my belief in the One True God is true :) as it is for every human who comes to know the Truth
of course, facts exist or do not independent of our ability to prove them. that is why we discover facts instead of invent them. however, just because some beliefs are facts doesn't mean all are. in fact most aren't.
from your perspective, belief in Jesus is fact but belief in Vishnu is false. both are beliefs that shape many lives.
Also, a belief that I am going to be successful may shape my life, but my belief that red heads love cake may be pretty irrelevant and I'm unlikely to base my life around it. beliefs come in all shapes, sizes, and validities.
either way. the question of god is unprovable in either direction. It's a matter of faith.
That's not true neighbor, all people are unGodly until they surrender their hearts to God. And some of these people do this by getting on both their knees and praying :)
"..beliefs can be something you base your life around."
Beliefs ARE something you base your life around, neighbor. You're right to say beliefs are not supported by evidence. But a belief can be factual, even without evidence. Would you like to know how? :)
ungodly people hate getting on both knees to pray
forgive me for my non omniscience. I do not pretend to know everything, but you seem to think you do.
yes, beliefs can be something you base your life around. that doesn't make it fact. one can believe they are destined to be successful and base their life around it. that doesn't mean they will, although that is a good start. It's just a really really big important guess.
"It is my understanding that god is.."
Here we go again. "It is my understanding" - when you write that, you are saying this is my personal take on the matter, but not the truth of the matter. Either you know about God or you don't. The God of the Bible, the One True God, doesn't demand worship. He deserves it.
?? did you read what you wrote? How can God making His presence known to you, make others believe in God? Explain that please. Thank you.
A belief is not a guess. A belief defines your life. If you're not sure about your beliefs then you can't say you have any. A belief is not a guess.
I agree with your statement except for the requirement to be worshipped. It is my understanding that god is supposed to not have human flaws like vanity.
if God does demand that inferior beings kneel before him, he is much more like us, imperfect at least morally.
Say you were a God, and you require your subjects to worship you and have faith in you. Would you make your presence known to them? No. Because then everyone would believe in you and follow you, making it pointless for them to have faith in you.
any answer that starts with "my belief is" is self proclaiming itself to not being a definitive answer but a "best guess".
in the presence of an unanswerable question, are we not allowed to use the tools at our disposal to form a logical conclusion? Or must we resign ourselves to ignorance and never bother trying? if that is your belief then we must all be agnostic.
Yes, "in the other thread." But that statement of mine wasn't directed to you. It was my argument for the topic of that thread. But I'm finding that you are in several threads. However, in this thread, based on what's available here - what I've expressed to you personally, you wouldn't know I'm a Christian. Just like a professional debate you use that information provided in that debate. Since you were in that other thread, that's how you know I'm a Christian. I just wasn't expecting you to use it as an "offense" towards me, since we barely know each other and just met. But you are right, yes I am a Christian. Could you please answer my question to you. How can you have a definite answer to a question (Is God real?) which you claim is un-answerable. Please validate your claim, thank you.
in the other thread you stated:
"I am a Christian. Islam is a false religion. We can't ban it."
if your a Christian, you must believe in god.
* [continued] >>definite
Your statement implies that I believe in God. However, I haven't mentioned my beliefs in this debate thread. You could only know that from reading that about me in a different article. You still haven't validated your claim that you can have a >>definite
much the same way you came to your determination.... then again you most likely just went along with whatever determination you happened to be born into.
"Impossible to determine, but my belief..."
..sir. If you can't "determine" it, how can you have a personal "determination" about it?
You are fake. You and all people who pretend that nobody dies. The people who stopped Chicago Homicide from being updated are fake. False god police are fakes who think that only they and rich people deserve to live on the Earth before dying and going to hell themselves.
impossible to determine, but my belief is that he doesnt. it's just so much more logical that the original existence would be simple matter and not some perfect consciousness.