The debate "Is homeschooling better than tradional schooling" was started by
June 7, 2019, 9:11 am.
By the way, Aditya_17 is disagreeing with this statement.
48 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 101 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
HobNobTheHob posted 1 argument, Delta_Force01 posted 14 arguments, Allirix posted 5 arguments to the agreers part.
historybuff posted 9 arguments, Nemiroff posted 11 arguments, Manuel posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
HobNobTheHob, hollieg, bernie, bigbuttgal, jrardin12, Zsheaffer, Delta_Force01, Allirix, gopalved, everyonehasanopinion, sasnath and 37 visitors agree.
Aditya_17, historybuff, sssk, sagarparab, Raquel24, MADHURA, Manuel, whackamole1, HusamAli, CelestialXXXX, Dreezy, codyray16, akankshajha, Batman, YEET, Nemiroff, lolopopo, sibongo, emzy101, Shrivali_16 and 81 visitors disagree.
I agree it's a shit show. It's about something we cannot prove and our destination after death. I'd be more surprised if it wasn't a shit show
Science is about finding the true nature of the world. Filling the gaps in what we know is just a guessing game until someone comes up with ways to falsify each gap. Until then, it's the playground of unfalsifiability, where God and the supernatural thrive. The supernatural is not an intellectual answer, but it's a guess that's just as meritorious as any other guess. That's how I see it as an agnostic anyway.
An intellectual answer is "it is unknown, but human experience tells us it's unlikely". That's agnosticism + any rational razor. You can cut many ideas away with the razors, but they're not necessarily correct, they're rational not logical (as in not axiomatic). They observably fail a lot in the real world because much of our world is counter-intuitive.
The point is they don't bring certainty. I think Christians and atheists agree that the supernatural is uncertain. Both sides just fill that uncertainty differently. A rational Athiest accepts they don't know, they've never experienced any evidence, and moves on not believing. A Christian does the same, but instead of selecting no theistic belief they put their trust in the beliefs of those they trust. That's what faith is.
It's two sided. You're trusting that others know more than yourself (eg their uncertainty isn't as high as yours, they might know more than you, they may have experienced something supernatural you never will), and you're trusting more good will come to you if you trust them (heaven, community, etc). That second side is summed up by Pascal's Wager. If I believe X, and X is true then "I am saved". If I don't believe X, and X is not true, then I am doomed. If X is not true then I am nothing no matter what so meh. The benefits lie on the side of believing X.
So when it comes to uncertainty Christians choose a side that benefits them. Muslims pick a side that benefits them. And atheists pick a side that either benefits them more or that they think is right because it's the default intellectual position.
Your post is a perfect example of people bending over backwards trying to make excuses for the many, many parts of Christianity where it contradicts itself, doesn't make sense, or is just plan terrible. You are making the argument that a religion doesn't need to make any sense, you just have to put blind faith into the religion you were born into.
If you step back and examine it objectively, Christianity is nuts. It doesn't really make any sense. It has a long history of lies, power grabs, and moving the goal posts for what the religion actually is. From the very basis of their view of god to the details of the bible, to the history of the church, the whole thing is just a shit show.
Delta Force is a perfect example of how Christianity has survived by using cultish behavior to suppress any kind of real thought. For the majority of the history of Christianity they wouldn't let anyone who wasn't a priest even read the bible. Delta Force is in favor of using home school to prevent children being exposed to other ideas and brain washing them to follow his ideology. It's hard to see the flaws of Christianity if you have never known anything else.
Agreed. Oh well
That's why I said "if he valued free will". If free will was the most important thing to him don't you think he, as an omnipotent being, could have found a way to give it to us? If your argument is God is all powerful, but God can't give us free will, then why not?
I personally believe logic limits omnipotence. For a example he cannot both give us free will and not give us free will at the same time. If omniscience is inherently incompatible with free will (and I believe it's only incompatible if the omniscient being designed our antecedents), and omnipotent being can make his omniscience transient. He coukd switch it off of he wanted to. Jesus is an example of him limiting his power. That's just one way. An omniscient being could probably figure a less hacky solution.
Since omniscience is only incompatible with free will while while designing and influencing antecedents I believe it is possible for an omnipotent and omniscient being to create beings with free will.
But we have gotten WAY off track of the original question which was about homeschooling.
If god is all powerful and all knowing, then free will doesn't exist. If god created us knowing what we would do, then he obviously has control of what we do. He could make us differently and therefore change what our actions would be. If he doesn't know what we are going to do, then he isn't god.
The idea of an all powerful god and the idea of free will are incompatible. Either god is an evil puppet master not worth worshiping, or he isn't a god. I don't see any reason why anyone would want to follow Christianity.
That ?? was an emoji
Yeah I agree ?? but it makes sense if God truly valued free will above all else, and not just the illusion of it. It's just the way the cookie crumbled.
He could have limited our domain of freedom to mostly good. Maybe if we felt tremendous pain when we knowingly did bad? That doesn't fully surpress our freedom. It's just a cleaner version of free will. But that's not what he chose.
If he's real it's difficult to question the decisions of an omniscient being.
If moral absolutism is legitimate, then a decision can be inherently right or wrong, and the being who knows all is in the best position to make the right choice.
But that requires accepting God knows best. That's why it's faith based. That's why Christians cannot be convinced using the problem of evil. It's an unfalsifiable mess, but it had to be or else it wouldn't have persisted for thousands of years.
But god knows everything that is going to happen. So if he made adam with the ability to sin, and also knew that he was going to sin, then he made him with the intention that that would happen.
God planned for humans to sin. You cannot have it both ways. Either god is all knowing and all powerful, in which case he designed us to sin so that he could torture us for all eternity once we did what he knew we would do, or he isn't all knowing and therefore not a god.
Why would you worship a creature that created beings knowing he was going to torture them. That is sadistic.
God didn't mess up because He meant to do it. Keep it in your head that He is absolute perfection. God made the capacity, but didn't cause us to do it.
Adam was as perfect as he could get. He was at the highest grade of man that man will ever be on this earth. No God can't sin. The Bible makes that very clear. This came from homeschooling because a reason why parents homeschooling their children is to give their children a good foundation while they are under their care. The parents are supposed to do what is best for their kids. They can't do that when the world is filling their head with unbiblical nonsense.
How was he perfect if he messed up? How is the capacity to sin part of perfection? If it is, can God sin? And, how did we get to God when the topic is homeschooling? XD
If we were designed to have free will then we were design to have the capacity to sin.
Adam is the representative of man. He was perfect until he disobeyed God and ate the fruit. He had a capacity to sin, but also the power to not sin. Since he is all of man's representative, you have his sin, I do, and so does everyone else who ever lived, is living, or shall.
He wasn't like God in the sense of an allpowerful being. He was made in God's image (in knowledge righteousness and holiness). He was at the very height of what man could be in terms of communion with God.
Adam knew both good AND EVIL after his sin. Before he didn't know what it was like. How could he? He knew what God had told Him, but never experienced the knowledge of sin and what evil was before he sinned.
so im guilty for the sin of another?
no im not!
are you saying before he sinned adam was perfect? just like god? then how did he fall?
why was knowledge considered a sin?
There are two categories of sin: Original and actual. Like heart problems are hereditary in families, Adam's sin is as well. That's why it's called original. It is like a gene passed down. If this type of sin didn't exist, we would sin only in our actual sins. We would be perfect until we sinned.
Actual sins are the sins that we ourselves commit in our life.
if it is our choice to sin, then what sin did the newborn choose?
We were perfect before we fell. Then, we had a choice to sin or not. We don't have that now. All we do is sin.
God gave us a will not to sin. It was our choice as to whether we were going to sin or not. We can't blame Him for our mistakes!
if we are born with sin, then we were designed for sin.
god designed us, and therefore it is his fault.
we must now apologize for what he did?
what a good god.
Our way teaches them about what they are (sinners), what the fall has done to the entirety of this world, and that they need to be saved. It is a parent's duty to protect their child, yes?
The wages of sin is death. We don't want them to follow sin, but God. We want them to be saved from their sins.
If you hide all other information from them and only allow them access to the information you choose to believe, that isn't teaching. That is brain washing.
You aren't giving them any option on deciding what the truth is. They only information they have access to is the dogmatic doctrine you choose to provide. That is exactly what cults do.
Real schools provide you access to a wide array of information, political and religious beliefs so that the child can learn about all of them and become a well rounded adult. Your way makes sure they become dogmatic cultists.
The world is full of adulteries, murders, lies and sin. Imagine how difficult it is to teach an eight year old who hears grotesque jokes each day and is put under peer pressure to follow everything that the world isn't. Again, the truth is strong. Its the people that need to ne strengthened. That way when they go out into the world, they know what is right and wrong, as opposed to the world tugging an eight year old away while you're trying to teach them rightly.
Not brainwashing. You're confusing it with teaching.
wow. you "stay home so that we can learn what the world is". That is exact opposite of learning what the world is. If you wanted to know what the world is you would go out into that world and experience it. Staying at home so that you don't interact with the real world is called hiding.
Cutting impressionable people off from the world is what cults do to brainwash people.
have you read anything anyone else said?
You didn't read what I said. A Spartans soldier wouldn't have been a Spartans if he want taught. In the same way, we sinners from birth, must raise our kids in the way of God before they step out or they will follow it. If they don't know what is bad they will follow blindly into it and to their own destruction.
We don't stay locked up our entire lives. We stay home so that we can learn what the world is, how sin has utterly corrupted everything, and the dangers of it, how we are to watch for sin, and to fight against it.
Christianity's truths are real, just as a sharp sword is a sharp sword. If an untrained soldier wields the sword, it will be of no use to him and he will soon be knocked to the ground with ease.
So your argument is that if you let children experience the real world and encounter other ideas and philosophies that they won't follow your dogmatic world view. You therefore believe you have to confine the children so that they can't access that information.
That is exactly how a cult operates. If your ideas cannot survive when people have access to other information, then your ideas don't deserve to survive.
You act as if we aren't sinners. We can easily be led astray, into great sins in fact, if we aren't guided. We aren't a cult. As to your accusation as to how if our faith is true, our faith is strong and true. Those who defend it, however, need to be tight to defend it. The Atlantic Wall was heavily fortified, but would be useless if 5 year olds manned it.
We need to fight sin. If we don't know what it is, the heinousness of it, and what it did to Christ, we won't stand against it.
Your argument for homeschooling sounds exactly like what cult leaders say. You have to stay inside the compound so you won't be led astray. You are advocating for parents hiding information and other points of view from their children in order to reinforce a cultish mentality. If your beliefs are correct, they should stand up to being challenged by other beliefs.
No such thing as luck. God is sovereign and will guide me in the way. He doesn't just save and then leave. He's always there with us.
You are firmly grounded in God's way and in understanding.
and what happens when you graduate and leave that shelter?
As a Christian, children being raised in God's way don't need distractions leading them astray when they are so young. They need a firm foundations to what s right and wrong.
I was a part of the innapropriate crowd for years. By God's grace he saved me from my sins and I no longer followed those ways. I wasn't a Christian before then, even though I claimed to be.
After I was converted it was torture every time I smiled at a joke. I didn't want to smile, but every Christian must deal with the main inside that has grown for years.
With homeschooled in a Christian home you don't nt have to deal with a terrible environment to grow up in. You grow in a peaceful environment and learn about the Lord.
I've been homeschooled, public schooled, half home/half private, private schooled, charter schooled, and skills center school (like vocational school for high school). I didn't like homeschool. I have a friend that really liked homeschool. It depends on the student, but I believe that home school is usually the least helpful of the choices
what will you do when you hear actual cuss words as an adult, possibly directed with hatred towards you? how will you manage them when you never figured out how to manage poopyhead?
Its better than hearing cusswords galore and innapropriate speech and gestures. These permeate the mind.
I have been in public school. its terrible, and I was extremely grateful when Mom told me that my sister and I would be homeschooled. I don't have to deal with that, and my sister doesn't have to suffer with year of pain in memory.
but no peer to peer interaction
No one ever said the parent had to teach. There is online schooling as well as textbooks the student reads, both written by well trained educators.
How can your parents teach you foreign language or something like that what is important to you in your future and for your finding job?
I agree that education needs to evolve away from rote memorization and into more creative forms... but it doesnt change the fact that some public schools are unconstitutionally underfunded (a fixable problem) and vast majority of parents are not skilled enough to be teachers of all subjects (not a fixable problem)
also, smaller class sizes are better, but 1 or 2 students is way to small and will hurt learning of even nonsocial skills.
Just my 2 cents.
I've been homeschooled and went to public school off and on until I graduated.
This depends a lot on the individual.
Do you learn better in small groups or large?
Are you introverted or extroverted?
What subject matter is necessary in terms of a chosen career?
What pace do you learn at?
Yes, homeschooling CAN make you very socially awkward. Yes, public school is filled with tons of very negative influences. And vice versa!
IMO there needs to be customization and room for change in education in general.
although if I lived in certain underperforming and underfunded school districts, homeschooling may have its benefits. but that is not due to the benefits of home schooling but the failings of our unequal system.
not only do they need a strong understanding of the subject they are going to teach, they must also understand how to teach.
If the person doing the home schooling is highly trained and an effective teacher, then I can see how it could be better. A much smaller class size could significantly improve student learning.
But that is almost certainly not going to be the case. Most parents are not highly educated in all subjects, if they are highly educated in any subject at all. So you giving up the benefit of teachers who have been trained in that field for each subject. So the quality of education is almost certainly going to be poorer.
Additionally, school also has a social aspect. In the real world you are going to need to interact with other people. Learning those social skills when you are home schooled is going to be much harder.