The debate "Is Trump racist" was started by
February 5, 2020, 2:37 pm.
By the way, abie is disagreeing with this statement.
45 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 36 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
historybuff posted 3 arguments, Paula posted 1 argument, Nemiroff posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
jrardin12 posted 5 arguments, Greetings posted 3 arguments to the disagreers part.
historybuff, chickenfordiner, m_ahmed, bitchimaqueen, Anonymous42, Paula, Nemiroff, rainbowsocked, eli, candice14coza and 35 visitors agree.
abie, StrangeTime, jrardin12, Greetings, matthieuwise, eva_pet35, benmiller123, Craven198787, Clint1234 and 27 visitors disagree.
The black people Trump was charged with lying to (to keep them out of his buildings) were american citizens. That isn't xenophobia, it's just old fashioned racism. But as nemiroff already said, the 2 often go together.
not exclusive qualities.
Bigots are often xenophobic.
actually he is xenofobic
these are very long and difficult to debate and reach agreement. do you mind if i just respond to the first couple of paragraphs and/or a general sentiment instead of a point by point? feel free to bring things back up later.
comparing antifa to neonazis and kkk is like comparing allied soldiers to nazis. sure they both used violence, but one is pure hate, and the other is the hate of hate. i dont think there is anything wrong with being intolerant of intolerance. they may be over zealous, over extreme, and maybe even dead wrong... but they are incomparible to the unprovoked hate that exists at the extremes of the right.
i dont believe the soviet union was communist. communism involves a state that makes sacrifices for its people. in soviet union, china, and N.korea, the people are expected to sacrifice themselves for the nation. thats facisim and thats a right wing ideology (traditional, hypernational). sure they call themselves communist, but syria calls itself a democratic republic... actions speak louder then words.
there is certainly evil within the left, democrats, or any large group of people. every government, every sizeable corporation. the presence of evil people doesnt damn the whole group, especially if the evil is not in control and systemic safegaurds remain. if you really want to judge democrats by their worst members, lets compare them to the dumbest and most violent on the right.
the greatest evil in american politics is the influence of money out weighing 1 person 1 vote. and the voice that pushes for more money in our politics, and more dark money from mystery donors, is the Republican party. all these social issues is secondary to the death of our democracy. also i think Republicans are worse for the economy.
If they vote at all, the skinheads, Neo-Nazis and KKK probably do all vote Republican, but that doesn't mean the right has a monopoly on evil. Antifa are probably very likely to vote Democrat in the same way.
These groups you mention are what happens when the right goes too far. The left is no less capable of descending into the darkness though. Do you know what brought an end to the Soviet Union? The Chernobyl disaster played a big part. The Soviets had a flaw in their nuclear reactors. Not wanting to be embarrassed in front of the US, they downplayed and ignored the flaw rather than alerting their nuclear scientists. What ensued was a nuclear meltdown.
If that doesn't expose the flaws of left-wing ideology gone bad, what followed certainly does. They downplayed the impact of the disaster too. They tried to cover up the consequences for 'the greater good' of the Soviet Union. For the far left, the greater good of the system is always more important than any temporary individuals, and with this disaster, the system had become unstable.
As a result, they didn't tell their own citizens that nuclear particles were raining down on them. Life went on as usual in the Soviet Union. Measures could have been taken to stop outdoor celebrations that took place, but the Soviet leaders saw the people as a worthwhile sacrifice to protect communism. How could they risk the coming utopia for the wellbeing of a few thousand people?
Nobody knows how many premature deaths, miscarriages and cancers that were caused. The official Soviet death toll for the disaster is something like 35 people. The real figure is estimated to be around 80,000, with the region still suffering from the health impacts decades later.
Okay... I totally get that I'm generalizing by talking about the left as one entity, when it's actually a diverse array of opinions. However, I can't agree that this is exclusive to the right. Hilary stood on that stage and called all Trump supporters a "basket of deplorables." Both sides are creating a caricature of the other and knocking it down.
I would say that it's the right who currently seem better at compromising though. The left is too busy eating itself and purging itself of its own free thinkers and intellectuals to ever consider compromise. Ever heard of ContraPoints? She's an awesomely gifted left-wing commentator. But she dared to debate a right-wing person, amongst other things, and one loud faction of progressives bit her head off.
yes, not all of his bigotry is racist, which is why in my previous post i said pattern of racism and general bigotry". i also stated that he might just be hateful of anyone who doesn't kiss his ass, which imo is the more likely explaination.
i dont know what your point was about African studies, and nor do i follow uk politics, in general the European right is similar to the American left and the American right is extreme.
was the man who came to your office a representative of the democratic party or just your company? he sounds like a self hating racist or a sheep reading from a screen. however there is evidence of discrimination in hiring as per the repeated resume study where identical resumes with white vs ethnic names were sent out and ethnic ones would get far fewer responses. that is unfair.
some individuals do claim that black people cant be racist, those people are idiots. there are idiots on both sides, but the problem is your propaganda foxnews labels anything even a single person on the left says as "liberals said". when a left wing publication quotes a Republican they name the senator, or the talk show host, but foxnews just plasters "liberals said" even if it was just some stupid blogger. we dont have a hive mind, and not every single one of the 100million liberals speaks for all liberals. that is stupid.
every right winger who comes here is conditioned to be inacapable of viewing the other side as individual humans anymore.
we know obviously not every right winger is full of hate, that claim is another scapegoating made against the left. if you would listen to anyone from the left the issue is that you have bigots in your party, like the ones making nazi salutes and chanting "Jews will not replace us." who have to be intentionally blind to ignore that. all skinheads, kkk, and neonazis are Republican.
you seem like a good dude, just filled with a lot of misconceptions about the other side. i do recommend learning about what liberals do or support from the liberals themselves and not just what some right wing pundit is saying about "the enemy."
So... Trump has said contentious things about muslims and Mexicans. Leaving aside the fact that he just made those outlandish statements in order to resonate with the public (and not after any consideration of race), it's worth pointing out that neither Mexicans or muslims are considered races.
Racism by your definition is rife within left-wing politics in the western world though. The leader of the Labour Party in the UK just lost an election after drowning in strong, legitimate claims of anti-semitism. Admissions policies at the greatest edicational institution in the world are capping the number of Asian students (something Trump took a stand against). Whiteness Studies is the study of an oppressive, colonialistic force that tries to build structures to benefit only itself. African-American Studies is a celebration of all the achievements and contributions of black people across the world despite a system set against their prosperity.
A very senior white man in my incredibly successful Silicon Valley HQ'd employer came to my office the other day and told us that "the management team here is full of middle-aged white men, and the problem with middle-aged white men is that they don't have good ideas." Why isn't that racism? It seems apparent to me that by your own definition, Donald Trump is the one taking the fight to the racist far-left.
What's clear is that the far-left doesn't mind racism, so long as it's only used against the most affluent groups in society (whites and jewish men). In fact, most prominent far-left thinkers will tell you that you can't be racist towards white people because an oppressed race cannot be racist towards their oppressors. Huh?... I don't see that in the dictionary...
What the far-left doesn't understand is that the rest of us aren't hate-filled, bigoted morons. We simply see unaddressed hypocrisy, contradictions and double-standards in central tenants of your arguments. Until the left becomes more relatable and shows awareness of its own hypocrisy, it'll continue losing elections across the west.
And since you asked, I'm not a victim of anything. My life is generally awesome. I have little money, but a genuinely engaging job that I can work remotely, friends all over the world, and I'm always surrounded by people who love and respect me. I have had so many amazing experiences. And yes, some of this came about through good fortune which I should be thankful for, but a lot through hard work and grit too.
you probably didnt mean to excuse racism, your just blindly repeating far right talking points without thinking. maybe you should evaluate your arguments honestly before shouting them out.
you said it doesn't exist because of a random technicality, excusing all of the racists and their hatred.
back on topic, pushing a single policy doesnt mean anything. your using a single minor event to excuse a pattern of racism and general bigotry by the president.
the only way to defend trump from racism is to point out that he generally hates anyone who doesnt worship him.
Well, we are going way off topic, but I wasn't excusing prejudice.
the hatred still exists. that was a sad attempt to excuse hatred.
Actually, since biological race doesn't exist there technically isn't racism.
wtf is with that victim speech?
im a white jewish male and i get plenty of opinion lol.
if you are judging someone based on their race, your racist. its that simple.
when you have people marching through the streets doing nazi salutes and saying "jews will not replace us" this is real. and your repeating some nonsense.
If it is true that someone pushed Trump to start a program to help blacks, and Trump is a racist, then why would he approve that? If Trump was racist wouldn't he be encouraging people to not hire blacks and have all kinds of executive orders to prevent blacks from getting jobs?
In order to proclaim Donald Trump a racist, we'd probably need to stretch the definition of that word a long way from its original meaning - one which it has maintained for decades. However, in the last 4 or 5 years, we've seen an attempt to rapidly morph its definition by a small group of political activists in the western democracies.
Racism is no longer a fundemental belief that one race is superior to another, or that races shouldn't mix. It is not about prejudice against a race anymore either. It's not even about a set of sensitive words that one should not utter.
Racism is now something subtle. Something that's both invisible and everywhere. If you even question whether there could be another perspective, you're a racist too. If you're white or Jewish, you aren't allowed an opinion, because you're part the problem.
It's now got to the point where many see the phrase "it's okay to be white" as a white supremacist call to arms. All diologue and reason is supressed at the behest of a deranged ideology that somehow sustains itself against the barrage of logic that is poured upon it by reasonable, rational people.
I have no quarrel with people who simply don't like Trump or his policies, but I am tired of this ideologically-possessed bleating about racism.
And by the way, I am indeed a white male, but my best friend is a Jamacan woman. My girlfriend is a half-Pakistani, half-Morrocan muslim. My favourite music artist is black. The majority of first-team players in my favourite football team are black. My best friend throughout childhood was black. My god son is mixed race. I live in and love my town where the majority of people are Asian. I am not a racist. I couldn't care less what someone's race is. I judge everyone I met only by the merit of their character.
That said... many people reading this message would tell you that this is exactly what a racist would say. Umm... right... of course... sigh...
This doesn't make sense. Trump has nothing to do with the black unemployment rate. And because someone in the government pushed for a program to help black people, you think trump isn't a racist? Do you really think the president decides who gets scholarships in america?
Or passing criminal justice reform.
If he was racist black unemployment would go up, not down. He wouldn't be giving money to black colleges or helping little black girls get scholarships to a better school.
He plead guilty to illegally lying to black people to keep them out of his rental buildings. There is tons of racist examples we can point to. I'm not sure why this is even a question at this point.