Israel is right in defending its land

December 26, 2016, 12:12 am

Agree20 Disagree13

61%
39%

The debate "Israel is right in defending its land" was started by Blue_ray on December 26, 2016, 12:12 am. 20 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 13 people are on the disagree side. That might be enough to see the common perception. It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.

PoliticsAsUsual posted 10 arguments, Blue_ray posted 11 arguments, RogueAmerican posted 1 argument to the agreers part.


Blue_ray, RogueAmerican, PoliticsAsUsual, BlackRavan, HellaJeff, roasting4days, deezmofonutz and 13 visitors agree.
thereal, WolfiesMom and 11 visitors disagree.

let me modify that. that may or may not have legal claim, but the pre1948 division they refused is not one of the valid since they didn't want to accept it.

although in every article and argument about this topic, Israel's refusal to abide by the division that the Palestinians never accepted is front and center.

2 years, 3 months ago

it's technically not Palestinian land. the land was divided by the UN but the Palestinians never agreed to the division. Israel agreed but it takes 2 sides to make a deal.

Palestinians refused the partition and instead sided with the Arab nations pushing for the 1948 war. Israel won the war and had rights to all that land (it wasn't even an agressor) even tho it returned most of it.

I agree Israel should give them the land, but they have no legal claim to it because of that refusal.

2 years, 3 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

they keep attacking each other both with good reason. Israel is holy land to them both. Israel got a piece of the land with support. not stolen. then they both went to war and one or the other took some land. this isn't stealing.the other gets made and attacks back. then this repeats till they get some peace because of America and other nations. albeit America might not being helping so much as hurting sometimes but so are the others. then after a few years it starts up again. neither want to share their toys. instead they want it all. that is the problem. if it continues one of them are not going to be here for long.

2 years, 3 months ago

the Palestinians aren't building settlements on stolen land. they do alot of shitty things, but the Israelis continue building their road blocks to peace year after year.

2 years, 3 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

same with the Palestinian though. it's both there faults

2 years, 3 months ago

I'm not debating the history of the conflict, only as it stands today. the Israeli people continue to elect hard line governments that don't want peace. that would seem to prove that the majority of Israelis don't want to treat the Palestinians fairly. if they did there would be backlash against building settlements on land that doesn't belong to them. there is no way peace is possible while Israel continues to steal land.

2 years, 3 months ago
PoliticsAsUsual
replied to...

equating the will of the Netanyahu administration to all of Israel is like equating Obama or trump as all americans. except in their case the scared ones have a lot more of a realistic reason to be scared and hardline.

Israelis may have come to Palestine with the desire to make their nation, but that doesn't mean they were willing to murder/dislocate people on a mostly empty anyway place!

I may want to make tons of money but that doesn't mean I'm going to kill or steal for it. I don't think their early actions show one shred of intent to harm despite not being able to say the same in reverse. they were willing to negotiate but the Palestinians never sent anyone to talk. I think that all of the actions before the founding of Israel are entirely legitimate, until they refused to let the Palestinians who fled to come back in.

that one stupid action caused the whole awful current situation. but the xenophobia of the Palestinians created the entire unnecessary conflict.

2 years, 3 months ago
PoliticsAsUsual
replied to...

Palestinians already have full citizenship in israel, at least the ones living in Israel proper. I believe you meant to the masses of Palestinians living in the occupied territories.

the current administration will most definitely agree with you, but that is not the case for all Israelis, and definitely not only a few decades ago. so long as it remains a democracy/Republic based on secularism and defends the rights of Jews in the world it will still be Israel and not Palestine with a Jewish minority. I'm going to guess and assume alittle, but I would imagine palestine would have a larger religious influence and no desire to protect Jewish noncitizens across the world.

enshrine those in the Constitution and make them unrevokable, + guarantee peace, and it will not matter who is the majority. btw, the whole defend Jews can be expanded to include palestinians.

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

and even palestinians

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

If thats the case, i mean if you cant go the either way, then i believe israel should set palestine free. There's causualties on both side of the wall, there's no good in palestine attacking israel or vice versa. Instead set Palestine free and that would save thousands of israelis and jews.

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

israel was a socialist country instead of being a communist. if you look at israeli history, kibbutz= community.

An israeli citizen on quora claims following----

That depends on what exactly you mean by ?Socialist?, and what you are comparing it to. As others have explained the political history, I'll focus on the present.

Compared to the USA, then yes, we are moderately Socialist. BUT for Americans this term is a ?bogeyman? and very few have a real idea as to what this means.

Compared to Europe, we are LESS socialist than many countries,especially the Scandavian ones.

What socialism means in Israel is that we have:

Universal Healthcare (damn good). This is covered by a small health TAX, which is transferred to the HMO we choose. The tax is dependent on size of income, with the lowest NOT paying at all.Unemployment. Which in some cases be for 120 days or so.Social Security. Which includes a) a stipend for the retired. b) a form of ?insurance? in case of accidents that prevent people from working. c) stipends for various types of health handicaps.Monthly ?Child Support? payments according to the number of children a family has.

There are probably a few more that I'm forgetting. What the world calls Socialism is basically inherent to traditional Jewish culture. That's pretty much why Jews had such major part in inventing it.

2 years, 3 months ago

they will never allow the Palestinians to have full citizenship in Israel. if they did then Israel would just turn into Palestine with a large Jewish minority. to protect their existence in a one state solution they would be forced to discriminate against the Palestinians. the Palestinians are not going to accept being subjects of Israel.

I'm not saying I agree with the Palestinian position, but they see Israel as sitting on stolen Palestinian land. the Israeli settlements certainly are on stolen land. Israel is creating conditions where peace is impossible.

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

dude, I support israel. not palestine. I know israel treats its minorities pretty good. All i wanted to say is, Israel needs to set up a mindset of 'safe and secure' among the palestanians. Once they do it, Israel has no problem nor anybody's gonna have problems after a one country policy.

2 years, 3 months ago
PoliticsAsUsual
replied to...

yes. it was a communist (or socialist, not 100% sure) Republic when it was founded.

2 years, 3 months ago
PoliticsAsUsual
replied to...

aside from Palestinians who have with whom there has been violence for nearly a century now on both sides, what other minority group faces ANY discrimination in israel? please show me.

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

i meant about one state solution. But that, i guess will only happen if palestine agrees to unite with israel. Secondly if israel would treat its minorities as equally as equally as jews.

2 years, 3 months ago
RogueAmerican
replied to...

Communist state?

2 years, 3 months ago
PoliticsAsUsual
replied to...

Israel was founded as a secular communist state. Jews have been more than a religious group for a long time. they are also considered a distinct and minority ethnic group, much like the kurds who are also fighting for a nation of their own.

also, you are conflating Judaism with jews. the purpose of Israel was to protect the people, not the religion.

2 years, 3 months ago
PoliticsAsUsual
replied to...

"to capture palestanian land and to build their settlements."

"make them israeli citizens and make them united with israel."

I know these two sentences are not technically inconsistent, but the words of capture and build settlements hints strongly at a oposite, discriminatory, and violent approach. they wouldn't really "capture" the land if the assimilate it and it's people in a peaceful and mutually beneficial agreement.

that aside, i believe you mean a 1 state solution, and if so, I agree with you 100%. a 2 state solution will probably result in militant groups attacking israel, Israel invading, and eventually resulting in the exact same occupied situation.

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

if thats the case, Argentina and Poland are some the best safe heaven for Jews. Not to forget, they arent even jewish states. They are secular. But still jews feel much more safer there.

2 years, 3 months ago

the reason they should care is that Israel was founded as a religious country. it was founded to protect the Jews. once they become the minority then they will no longer be able to guarantee the protection of Judaism. I don't particularly agree with the idea of religious states, but it is their reason to exist.

2 years, 3 months ago

Personally, I always have supported Isreal. I dont feel it Isreal's guilt, but i dont blame it on Palestine either. No one's innocent. But still Israel has rights for her existence.

2 years, 3 months ago

**republic ---- state.

I was confused. Later i found that there were only a few republic islamic countries.

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

why should someone care about religion IF both the jews and muslims together can make Isreal a wealthy and developed nation living with peace and harmony? Do the words ' islamic republic of ' , ' Jewish state of ' matters more than peace and prosperity?

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

you speak about secularism but you dont seem to be secular

2 years, 3 months ago

except they aren't Jewish. if you bring in alot of Muslims then it stops being a Jewish state. they aren't going to make citizens of lots of Palestinians.

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

make them israeli citizens and make them united with israel.

2 years, 3 months ago
PoliticsAsUsual
replied to...

and do what with the palestinians who live there?

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

to capture palestanian land and to build their settlements.

2 years, 3 months ago

but to what extent?

2 years, 3 months ago
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