The debate "Israel shouldn't exist." was started by
June 9, 2015, 8:46 pm.
24 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 55 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
WesleySr posted 1 argument, I_Voyager posted 5 arguments to the agreers part.
toughgamerjerry posted 1 argument, owentowe posted 2 arguments, lararea posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
WesleySr, I_Voyager, kyaah, Arnold, Upbeatethan, action007man, Ashna, Alp4president and 16 visitors agree.
ombatra1997, toughgamerjerry, fgarcia505, omfgcandy, Rafiki122, barca_paaras11, jonatron5, PlatypusParty, owentowe, Bodaciouslady16, felix, The_lamp, Zach_Hill, lararea, Flaming_Butt_Tart_42, historybuff, raz, gigly, kay_joey1101, Bxat9, CJismyname12, sabrina, PhoenixF1re, R3dD0g, Afshin and 30 visitors disagree.
I agree. If the question were "Israel should stop existing" then I would also strongly disagree. It is impossible and unethical to dismantle Israel. Regardless of the immoral historicity of Israels founding it exists, people live there, culture thrives. Live and cultures are important. Murder and genocide are explicitly evil.
It is completely immoral to state that 'Israel shouldn't exist' that is pathetic. It would be completely unfair to 'wipe out' Israel. It is a hateful and racist concept.
Actually that's exactly what I relate this to, and feel very strongly about the mistreatment of Aboriginal people in my country (Canada). But I won't get into further details about my opinions about the cultural genocide of the Americas which continues to this day in the Amazon rainforest, since it is not the topic at hand. But it was this history, and the history of our influence in South America, Asia and Africa which led me to write that bit above:
"But western powers tend to prioritize the power of nation over the morality of nation, leading to a morally reprehensible history. Those of us who wish to be moralists are left with a self-loathing over the abuses of western culture in the past three hundred years of its existence. I'd rather acknowledge our immorality and act for restoration and penance, than accept with indifference the evil acts of the past."
Considering the history of the nation Israel as we know it begins in the 1850's - 150 years ago - the other 150 years must have been in reference to the the preceding history (which I'm wrong about, it was more like 400-500 years of morally reprehensible western colonialism wasn't it?)
Furthermore, you make it sound like they fought to take back the land they lost a century ago. There were numerous land-changes in that region throughout history. The Jewish people trace back their tribal ancestors thousands of years ago, same with their exodus. But the Palestinian people had been there for a good 700 years before the British took it in 1850. This land was a British land until the British agreed following WW2 to give this land to the Jewish people. Afterward the Jewish militaries settled and steadily took land from the natives until half the land became occupied and the other half oppressed. This is not like the Russians fighting to take back the land that had been conquered a few years past by the Nazi's.
The people of Israel fought for and defends their homeland and you call that immoral? what about when the English came over here and invaded native american lands and forced them off of their land to establish what is today known as the United States Of America. Nobody brings that up but they'll bring up what the immoral things the Israelites done.
If the question were "Israel should stop existing" then I would disagree. It's impossible and unethical to dismantle Israel. Regardless of the immoral historicity of Israels founding it exists, people live there, culture thrives. Live and cultures are important.
But historically speaking, the founding of Israel was immoral. Israel shouldn't exist. A chunk of Germany should have been cleared out of Germans as penance for WW2, and the numerous Jewish people who survived the genocide ought to have inherited those lands. But western powers tend to prioritize the power of nation over the morality of nation, leading to a morally reprehensible history. Those of us who wish to be moralists are left with a self-loathing over the abuses of western culture in the past three hundred years of its existence. I'd rather acknowledge our immorality and act for restoration and penance, than accept with indifference the evil acts of the past.
Might makes right then?
There are many who would rather die than be coerced by might. We're going to die anyway, whatever we do. Better to die well than live a happy slave.
The storybook the British of the 1850's regarded as true did not excuse their conquering the people who'd lived in Palestine for a millenium. Nor the establishment of a new militaristic state upon that land.
What's the difference between protecting myself from you in my house, and protecting myself from you in your house? Morality. Rights. Freedoms. Virtues. Christian nationalists tend to forget these things when they become inconvenient.
Love thy neighbor but righteously kill anyone else for land, a storybook or oil. Love thy enemy, but bomb the shit out of them. When they slap you, turn the other cheek... But before they slap it again, stab them in the guts, rip the entrails out and tell their children their parents deserved it. Then take their parents stuff.
Israel should exist because Christians fought hard for the land that GOD promised them. People refers to the wars as an act of violence and it's not Christian like but think about the soldiers who are Christians that defend our country everyday what's the difference over here and over there when it comes to national defense?
It's not about being ally or not, I belive that Israel shouldn't exist due to historic reasons. But I will check your other arguments anyway.
You're basically threatening Israel. If you look back at the other Israel debate and look at my first comments you will know why I think it best to be their ally.