Jesus Is Lord

March 21, 2019, 9:53 pm

Agree69 Disagree103

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The debate "Jesus Is Lord" was started by vastworld on March 21, 2019, 9:53 pm. 69 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 103 people are on the disagree side. That might be enough to see the common perception. It looks like most people are against to this statement.

Delta_Force01 posted 11 arguments, lolopopo posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
mtbtheboss posted 1 argument, RoyDierlijk posted 1 argument, Aiyaz posted 1 argument, JDAWG9693 posted 5 arguments, TheExistentialist posted 4 arguments to the disagreers part.

vastworld, MADHURA, Light, fry, Jane, YoungBenShapiro, itzmeboi, codyray16, Delta_Force01, lolopopo, sibongo, ProDavid and 57 visitors agree.
JDAWG9693, Gray_son, AlissiaMathew, Charlie, amir_alhakim07, EmiMoro, mtbtheboss, mwest0097, Eurah, RoyDierlijk, Aiyaz, akankshajha, Anabelle_Granger, Batman, TheExistentialist, elipsa1000, everyonehasanopinion, The_Pyschoone1, Shrivali_16, Lind, K1VK2DF and 82 visitors disagree.

TheExistentialist
replied to...

are you referring to "Pascal's wager"?

4 weeks ago

who knows.

4 weeks ago
lolopopo
replied to...

Lets see "at the end"

1 month ago
TheExistentialist
replied to...

I'm asking you to use CREDIBLE sources. They don't have to be atheist. But sources should disclose methodology, results, and be peer reviewed. Ron Wyatt is a fraud even in the religious community. I used religious sources to show you this.

The Ark on mount Ararat claimed to have been discovered in 2010 by a Chinese team The highly scientifically literate news network Fox News grabbed the story and ran with it immediately. There was muted excitement among creationists, but the finding was declared a hoax in September 2010.

even religious sites like https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-ark/noahs-ark-found/has-ark-been-found/ don't find these claims credible.

Again; please don't just believe anything you read. do some actual digging and don't just fall into the trap of confirmation bias.

none of the supposed "Ark discoveries" on mount ararat have ever been confirmed. The research team that claims to have entered the Ark and found the wood refuse to publish their results, refuse to share their samples, etc... furthermore The Christian Science Monitor quotes another ark-hunter, Randall Price, as saying he feared that "proper analysis may show this to be a hoax and negatively reflect how gullible Christians can be." The Monitor cited a leaked e-mail, attributed to Price, suggesting that Kurdish men could have trucked wood up the mountain to stage an elaborate hoax for the Chinese-Turkish team.

Another Christian source points out more problems with the NAMI team discovery and their story:
https://creation.com/hong-kong-ark-fiasco
here is a list of the problems they found with this NAMI team hoax:

NAMI confirmed it had never seen any “giant wooden structure”
NAMI never saw the impressive-looking ‘giant space’ they depict
NAMI have not sampled the ‘giant walls’ to see if they are wood
To geologists, these ‘wooden walls’ suggest instead a form of basalt
The ‘NAMI man’ in the giant ‘room’—the first of many examples of digital (computer) trickery
Modern machinery marks on the wood
The radiocarbon evidence: modern wood
Two out of three radiocarbon labs reported to NAMI that it was modern wood
NAMI concealed the results that would demolish their claim
1,000 witnesses to the find? Well, not exactly …
-In short, the 1,000 so-called ‘witnesses’ will only be permitted to camp at 2,800 metres, more than a kilometre (over half a mile) below the site in altitude. The only ‘evidence’ they will be permitted to see is alleged a

1 month ago

Your asking me to use an atheist source to prove my claim! Your saying none of my sources are reliable because they are Christian. I agree on some things concerning that Ron wyatt djdnt find the ark of this covenant. But that doesn't mean that all that he has found is false
the ark on mount ararat for example, has been entered. Wooden beams, hay, and other things have been found, along with metal rivets. Its shape (the boat) can be seen from above. The shape of a ship.

1 month ago
TheExistentialist
replied to...

This is a claim originally made by World Daily News: which is a fake new source. Just a little bit of digging would have led you to this. Furthermore there are no primary reports of this discovery. Please don't bother with youtube clips, they are not credible sources of information. Ron Wyatt; the person claiming to have discovered the Chariot wheels claims to be an Archeologist but just doing a tiny bit of research shows that he is in fact a Nurse Anesthesiologists who has ZERO training in Archeology and claims to have found and that he claims to have found almost 100 biblically-related items all within a decade, including:

-Noah’s Ark

-the fire and brimstone balls from the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah

-The tower of Babel

-The Ark of the Covenant

-The original 10 commandment tablets

-Goliath’s sword

The list of fantastical discoveries should in and of itself raise questions about any discovery Ron Wyatt claimed to have made. This didn’t stop his “discovery” of chariot wheels spreading. It has been repeated in articles and books and documentaries though. In actual fact, Ron Wyatt’s work has universally debunked by respected archaeologists and scholars. Joe Zias, the former Curator of Archaeology and Anthropology for the Israel Antiquities Authority said, “Mr. Ron Wyatt is neither an archaeologist nor has he ever carried out a legally licensed excavation in Israel or Jerusalem…We are aware of his claims which border on the absurd as they have no scientific basis whatsoever

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chariot-wheels-found-bottom-red-sea

Even religious sites like Patheos have debunked the story you're referring to:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/religionprof/2012/06/chariot-wheels-in-the-red-sea-hoax-persists.html

"You people state that you go off of what is true, so do it. There is no possible alternative. God is real."
How about the alternative that the discovery is a fake? Please research wild claims before simply believing them. If you have trouble with figuring out how to differentiate between credible and non-credible sources, please visit your local library; staff there can assist you in vetting sources for credibility and bias.

reading through your sources, it is very clear you don't know how to vet sources properly.

1 month ago

https://youtu.be/6sArTZrdbGw

1 month ago

Have you ever seen the bottom of the Red Sea? Men did a video (not animated) where they found axles, Chariot wheels, and other chariot parts. In Exodus, God drowned the Egyptian army when he released the walls of water on them as they walked on the sea bed.
You're going to say some sort of accident, but when is enough evidence enough evidence. Moses wrote the book of Exodus long before we had any airtanks, goggles, etc. Stand on facts. You people state that you go off of what is true, so do it. There is no possible alternative. God is real.

1 month ago
TheExistentialist
replied to...

"https: //www.desiringgod.org/articles/historical-evidence-for-the-resurrection"
This article is nonsense. It uses circular reasoning to "prove" that the resurrection of Christ. There is absolutely ZERO INDEPENDENT evidence provided in this article to support its claims. It essentially claims that the Bible supports the story of Christ. Furthermore, the author cherry picked criticisms of the truth of the resurrection to address. He states that:

Now, I recognize that just because the disciples think they saw Jesus doesn't automatically mean that they really did. There are three possible alternatives:

They were lying
They hallucinated
They really saw the risen Christ

This is cherry picking. Since he doesn't address the very real possibility that the Bible is fiction. Furthermore, the author takes the existence of Jesus Christ as a given when it is not. There is ZERO EVIDENCE that Jesus Christ ever actually existed in the first place, so he using the "Begging the Question Fallacy" to begin the argument.

How are we supposed to take anything in this article serious when he strictly uses fallacies to make his point and uses absolutely zero independent evidence to support his claims?

1 month ago
JDAWG9693
replied to...

Dude. Please summarize

1 month ago

This gives overwhelming evidence. Read it in your spare time.

1 month ago
JDAWG9693
replied to...

On this forum it's okay to share links and stuff, but see try to put a TL/DR because not all of us have time to read whole articles, while the sharer already did

1 month ago

Read this:https: //www.desiringgod.org/articles/historical-evidence-for-the-resurrection

1 month ago
JDAWG9693
replied to...

Joseph Smith had personal followers who were martyred in the name of Mormonism, as well as himself. The Heaven's Gate group committed mass suicide in the name of their beliefs. Just because someone believed in something, even died for it, doesnt make it true.

That's not evidence against God, but it definitely weakens your argument

1 month ago

Jesus had 11 disciples whom He showed Himself to them. All of them died because they believed the resurrection.
It couldn't have been hallucination because it is highly unlikely for 11 people to see the same thing. It's just like someone having the same dream about the same person at the same time. Doesn't work.

1 month ago
JDAWG9693
replied to...

Well, there are witnesses that we can name for the Book of Mormon, is that enough evidence for you to convert to LDS? I would guess (and hope) not.

1 month ago

What evidence do you want? Names?

1 month ago
JDAWG9693
replied to...

https://taylormarshall.com/2018/04/resurrected-christ-appeared-500-happen.html

Here is the best explanatory link I could find on it. Basically, Paul wrote it in a letter with no evidence.

1 month ago

I don't know their names. It is known that 500 men saw Christ after the resurrection and recorded their accounts. These aren't just in the Bible, but also in nonbiblical manuscripts.

1 month ago

who are these men you keep talking about? what men specifically?

1 month ago

After a person wakes up, though, given a little time they will know that they wherein fact dreaming. These men went to their death, being executed in fact for this matter. They wouldn't take back what they saw. Five hundred men wouldn't take it back. If it were five, it might be less provable. But five hundred men having the same dream all at once doesn't work.

1 month ago

Lots of people have dreams and when they wake feel like it was real. That is in no way psychosis. They might go on to tell people about their "vision" and the story spreads.

There are a great many people in the world who claim to have been abducted by aliens, or that they saw Elvis or some other dead celebrity. You say it can't happen, but you obviously aren't paying attention. it is happening right now. It has been happening all through human history. The difference is that today we dismiss those claims out of hand, in the ancient or medieval period many of these people were believed. And in an extremely religious culture, you don't see a dead rock star or an alien, you see an angel or god. Take Joan of Arc for example. She probably had some form of schizophrenia. If someone displayed those symptoms today they would get psychological help. In Medieval France, she went to war.

We aren't talking about 1 report. We are talking about a large number of unrelated people reporting things in an unrelated way over the course of centuries. it's not like 1 person went out and talked to hundreds of people who had visions. Do you know how many people lie, every single day? Do you know many people will tell the most ridiculous, bald faced lies to get what they want? Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's power, sometimes it's just attention. But yes, unfortunately people will lie about pretty much anything. And in particular, religious writers are well known to make stuff up. They regularly ascribed their writings to better known authors to make it seem more valid. If a particular writer wanted to make it seem like religious visions were common, and they had heard about 1 or 2 cases they could just say it was 10 or 20 cases. Who would be able to check their work? It could also be quite profitable. There were cases where priests would make up miracles to try to lure pilgrims to the area so they could charge them money.

Religious forgeries are also extremely common. In a famous example The pope used a forgery to try to trick Charlemagne into submitting to the church. So it is certainly possible that many of the reports might have been made up by a later writer to further some argument they were trying to make.

1 month ago

First, your talking about mass psychosis, which can't happen. Second, five hundred people lying on a report. You can't lean on that. All disciples were persecuted for their witness of seeing Christ ressurected. Why would they do that for a lie?

1 month ago

Some people dream things and think they are real. Some religious fanatics actually convince themselves they see these things. Some people are just actually crazy and are seeing things. Some people lie. Some writers, especially religious writers, make up or embellish things to support their opinion/position.

There are lots of reasons why people might say they saw jesus after his death.

I'm sure I could find you 500 accounts of people seeing Elvis after his death too. Should we worship him as the messiah?

1 month ago
Delta_Force01
replied to...

Explain, then, why over 500 people wrote down accounts of seeing Him after his unfakable death.

1 month ago
Aiyaz
replied to...

Jesus was not a god neither any of those middle eastern massehas they were actually Prophets sent by god to guide people to the right path

1 month, 1 week ago

There were a dozen "messiah's" wandering around the middle east at the time of Jesus of Nazareth.He is just one more cult leader. He just happens to be an extremely successful one as his followers went on to convert billions of people.

Although he did end up being executed. So you could also make the argument he was an extremely unsuccessful cult leader.

2 months, 2 weeks ago

Jesus isn't the messiahs real name.

2 months, 2 weeks ago

if Jesus was a lord and supposedly one with powers.. why did he not solve a single problem in society and why did he create a belief that millions of people would die over

2 months, 2 weeks ago
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