The debate "Kate's law should have been passed." was started by
July 7, 2016, 7:23 pm.
11 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 8 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Alex posted 18 arguments, dalton7532 posted 4 arguments to the agreers part.
PoliticsAsUsual posted 4 arguments, historybuff posted 2 arguments, Nemiroff posted 12 arguments, Daffa8799 posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
Alex, MrShine, dalton7532 and 8 visitors agree.
PoliticsAsUsual, Nemiroff, Daffa8799, damez, historybuff and 3 visitors disagree.
obviously it would never be beuracracy. and it is perfectly reasonable to expect the eager to work poor of 3rd world countries to fork up thousands of dollars in fees (nonrefundable) and Lawyers to navigate the beuracratic mess.
OBVIOUSLY all those illegals are just career criminals with no redeeming qualities.
this is all sarcasm in case I didn't make it clear enough.
if you are denied entry it's probably for a good reason like a crime having been committed.
"(3) who has been EXCLUDED from the United States pursuant to section 1225(c) of this title because the alien was excludable under section 1182(a)(3)(B) of this title or who has been removed from the United States pursuant to the provisions of subchapter V, and who thereafter, without the permission of the Attorney General, enters the United States, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under title 18 and imprisoned for a period of 10 years, which sentence shall not run concurrently with any other sentence."
the wording of the section suggests that if you are denied entry, Kates law will apply to you.
you can be deported anytime by ice, this won't only target criminals. this is stupid.
the bottom line is immigration needs to be drastically reformed. Kate's law will keep us safe until that happens
only reentry. not first entry. do you need to read it again?
Kates law punishes the entry, not the crime. Kates law not only punishes reentry, but also the first entry if the immigrant tried legally and was denied.
all kates law will do is discourage legal immigration since if your not denied legal entry, you can enter at least once illegally without jail time.
illegal immigration is a crime, but not one Kate's law is against.
and do you consider their illegal entry as one of those crimes? cause then just say they are all already criminals in your eyes and should be booted by default.
stop beating around the bush.
I want to make sure there are no illegals that ignore the law and do bad things
they broke laws lust because they didn't like them. they want on do good things. illegal immigrants ignore a law they don't like and do good things. there's not a lot of difference.
you can't revere one and hate the other without being a complete hypocrite.
They can be, but they aren't.
the Founding Fathers did bad stuff, sure, but they kinda also formed the greatest country ever, with the most freedoms ever.
so you are agreeing with king Henry that the founding fathers were all nothing more than law breaking criminals?
"since the current way is to only deport those who commit crimes"
except your wrong, since obamas order was stopped by lower courts, no illegal is safe from deportation, whether they commit crimes or not.
repeating it won't make it right. please stop. or provide some sort of proof that innocent illegals cannot be deported.
just because you don't like a law, doesn't mean you can ignore it
Kates law is not ALL illegals, only the ones who have been deported. since the current way is to only deport those who commit crimes, kates law only targets bad guys, not good illegals.
I want to help people come to america. More people can come, they can gt better jobs, and america can be better if it is controlled and done so legally.
Kates law targets all illegals not just violent ones. it is inhumane and unamerican. it should be tossed in the garbage.
well alex, not sure if you do it intentionally, but as a conversion seems to progress you return to your original talking point that either only violent illegals are deported (which is completely wrong) or that they are already criminals by default (which is irrelevant as the law is what is wrong, not their actions.)
you do know the founding fathers were not only criminals but also traitors, ask king henry, finding unjust laws and telling them to f*** off is the American way, and these risk taking, unjust law ignoring, pioneers who venture for freedom are as American as they come.
I like that, make things built on america, not other countries.
Kate's law will make sure all violent illegals won't be a problem.
any violent criminal illegals should already be gone. and you don't need to give them work, just legalize them and ALLOW them to work legally. they won't have to suffer through below minimum under the table pay and as an added bonus, eliminate their ability to undercut citizens.
the private sector will handle job creation itself, or if not, start a "new deal" type project to build some renewable energy factories and plants or have them build a new city if there are too many immigrants.
use American parts for the public projects and that will stimulate local manufacturing as well.
Debunked immigration myths from UK
that would work.
I have 2 questions
1. documenting the millions of illegals in the country and getting all them jobs will require top organization. Will it be a national branch of the goverment or the states that handle it?
2. Will you deport the illegals now that have committed the crimes (either 1 violent or 2-3 nonviolent) and what will be done about illegals that come in once your system is established?
extra funding to then secure the border with unanimous support (since all non malicious migrants are legally allowed minimal hassle), and maybe take a chunk out of debt or fix healthcare, whatever free money and growth.
no fear of deportation if you do nothing wrong, but a 1 strike your out for violent crime, 2 to 3 strikes for lesser offenses. some with perma ban, others with a 5 to 10 year no period.
I want to legalize them, employee them, and tax them.
immigrants should be encouraged legally, instead of discouraged and forcing people to come illegally. they should get no welfare, and be taxed on their income at higher than citizen rates. they gain jobs, security, and stability, while we gain labor and tax revenue. their motivation will be eventual citizenship (15 years not 5) and a better, US citizen, life for their children.
I think that is a balance that will be acceptable to immigrants and very beneficial to citizens. all while putting the US and it's citizens first.
illegal immigrants cannot claim welfare. why do you just outright lie when it is so obvious? illegal immigrants generate billions in American money. without them several industries would likely collapse. or just simply be outsourced because it is no longer profitable.
and yes they can be deported for just about anything. as you said, being here is a crime so they don't need a good reason to deport you. so saying they are all violent criminals just makes you look stupid.
They aren't deported for just being there.
you want to give them welfare. welfare money comes from taxpayers
they don't generally commit crimes, they aren't taking your taxes.
that doesn't matter. what matters is bad, crimminal illegals enter, commit crimes, get deported, come back, and you want to give them my taxes.
Immigration arguably didm't have proper positive relationship with crime rates. In UK, they've controlled immigration and crime rates still increasing. Today is 4x higher than US
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/3011/text -Kate's Law.
However, it is amended with "Section 276 of the Immigration and Nationality Act" http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:8%20section:1326%20edition:prelim) -Link.
illegals can be deported for any reasons. if kates law applied only to those who were deported for violent reasons I would be in support.
as written this law is unamerican.
#3 is criminal and unjust.
#1 is questionable. illegals get no welfare thus unless they stole to get that drug money it is not a prisonable offense.
if they stole than they will be covered by #2, the only legitimate section of this law.
Let's read Kate's Law, shall we? "(b) Criminal penalties for reentry of certain removed aliens
Notwithstanding subsection (a), in the case of any alien described in such subsection-
(1) whose removal was subsequent to a conviction for commission of three or more misdemeanors involving drugs, crimes against the person, or both, or a felony (other than an aggravated felony), such alien shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both;
(2) whose removal was subsequent to a conviction for commission of an aggravated felony, such alien shall be fined under such title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both;
(3) who has been excluded from the United States pursuant to section 1225(c) of this title because the alien was excludable under section 1182(a)(3)(B) of this title or who has been removed from the United States pursuant to the provisions of subchapter V, and who thereafter, without the permission of the Attorney General, enters the United States, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under title 18 and imprisoned for a period of 10 years, which sentence shall not run concurrently with any other sentence.1 or
(4) who was removed from the United States pursuant to section 1231(a)(4)(B) of this title who thereafter, without the permission of the Attorney General, enters, attempts to enter, or is at any time found in, the United States (unless the Attorney General has expressly consented to such alien's reentry) shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both." Thank you. Case closed.
I fell you Alex, no matter how much time you refer to illegal immigrants. They always change it to a phrase without "illegal" even thought that is what the conversation is based one. "illegal"
we are talking about anyone who has been deported for any reason. most of these people are not violent criminals. you are talking about a mandatory minimum sentence that would apply to anyone, criminal or not. that is a stupid plan.
ok, sure it is, but we aren't talking about immigration.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS WHO HAVE COMMUTED CRIMES AND DEFIED DEPORTATION. THESE TYPES ARE BAD, COMMIT CRIMES, AND ENDANGER AND KILL AMERICANS!
Noone is putting America last. immigration is good for an economy and they can be an excellent source of tax revenue.
your saying locking up dangerous people is stupid cause it costs to much.
if someone is fleeing a country to come to the US, but they are dangerous crimminals who endanger anericans why let them walk?
again I really hate the "Americans last" foreign policy..
using all caps doesn't change the fact that your entire premise is wrong. if your illegal you don't have to commit a crime to be deported. just having ICE raid your workplace is enough. people have been deported for even going to the police because they were the VICTIM of a crime.
your oversimplification and utter ignorance and denial of this issue is baffling.
according to the US sentencing committee it would send 60,000 people to prison in its first 5 years. that is an increase of about 28% of the federal prison population and cost 2 billion dollars.
this bill wouldn't stop illegal immigrants from returning after being deported. it only forces the government to pay for imprisoning them for half a decade. the law makes no sense.
people re entering the US are typically fleeing danger in their home country or trying to return to family. Kate's law is not going to deter anyone and would be wildly expensive.
Crime- REENTING THE COUNTRY AFTER BEING DEPORTED FOR COMMITTING A CRIME.
punishing for the earlier crime - DEPORTATION
then prosecute them for the crimes committed. anything past that is unjust.
making a blanket law punishing a general, nonviolent action is wrong.
if the millions of innocent illegal parents of American citizens need protection from deportation, then clearly deportation is not only for criminals. they are all already criminals in your eyes anyway.
but for entering the country AFTER BEING DEPORTED FOR COMMITTING CRIMES
as you said, they are being jailed not for crimes, but for entering the country.
that's the bill, go read it.
it mentions Illegal REENTRY after being deported. because illegals are not being deported for just being there, they are deported for committing felonies. so those deported have committed series crimes. why should people who commit crimes and come back to america not be arrested?
Kates law is bullshit. the only crime it discribes is the illegal entry and no mention of anything violent or harmful.
tell me what's wrong with punishing undocumented illegal aliens who commit crimes and defy deportation.