The debate "Liberals don't care if a baby is aborted but they care about what type of light bulb you use" was started by
November 19, 2015, 8:58 pm.
47 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 18 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Alex posted 13 arguments, omactivate posted 7 arguments, bigB posted 1 argument, Maximus posted 5 arguments, TZW posted 2 arguments, ReadyToBegin posted 2 arguments to the agreers part.
Wookie posted 3 arguments, project_mayhem posted 2 arguments, Pugsly posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
liberalssuck, Alex, omactivate, bigB, fredtyu, action007man, AstroSpace, loupsolitaire, thekid, DannyknowsItAll, bearunter, Yuki_Amayane, Skeetc15, lawyer_to_be, HRPufnStuf, rob5998, Maximus, ProudAmerican888, TZW, ReadyToBegin, fadi, oscar90000, ERROR275, openparachute, SwaggerPoptart, DB8101 and 21 visitors agree.
Wookie, keponefactory, lexham, Upbeatethan, YMayy, Pugsly, MilaAngel and 11 visitors disagree.
Mayhem, I agree with most of that. Very solid statement.
Putting the limitation only for rape victims would create many women wrongly accusing men of rape. Unless there were marks left or the intent was obvious; its hard to prove the sex was against her will.
As far as illegal abortion clinics, a big percentage of men and women in this country are pro-choice. I believe if it became illegal many doctors will still be practicing the procedure. And I think it's a safe to assume that all doctors who do the procedure now are pro-choice. This is just my prediction.
"I meant not using protection or other method when having sex" Though we have condoms and birth control, they're not always reliable.
As I mentioned before, it's ok to believe abortion is wrong or find it immoral. And many people believe that bringing an unwanted child into the world is wrong, or that forcing a woman to have a child against her will is immoral.
Many say that aborting a fetus is considered murder. There's not really any scientific consensus as to when human life begins. It s a matter of philosophic opinion or religious belief. Human life is a continuum; sperm and eggs are also alive, and represent potential human beings, but virtually all sperm and eggs are wasted. Also, about two-thirds of human conceptions are spontaneously aborted by nature.
The limit for an abortion is 24 weeks in most places. This was decided due to when the fetus feels pain. However, some evidence suggest the fetus can feel pain by 20 weeks; but that's a different argument.
Ultimately I feel a woman should have a choice to have a child or not. To me, when a woman aborts a child, it's her simply her making a decision not to have a child. And I don't find this decision any of my business.
"Well given that the first part of the joke reads "Liberals don't care if a baby is aborted" on a debate app, I don't find it odd at all. "
- True. I guess I was more fixated on the fact that it was a joke and than there would just be conservatives agreeing and laughing. That happened on a different argument.
"Let's say they were limitations. Would they be required to show proof of being raped? If so, many actual rape victims will be denied for an abortion. If not, people would just have to lie and say they got raped. It would create illegal abortion clinics as many people believe that woman has a right to her own body. It would create woman attempting to abort it themselves. "
- Yes. Why would they be denied an abortion if they can prove they were raped. It would be the evidence you see from rape kits, therapists, etc. Mass majority probably wouldn't and that's what I am after. It's almost like you are comparing it to drug regulation.
"Two human beings having a sexual encounter are not making poor decisions."
- Stop right there. That's not what I meant. I meant not using protection or other methods when having sex. You can have sex, I don't care. I guess that Nulls most of the rest of that. Please, don't assume what I mean.
"But not only does abortion benefit women, but also benefits science. The use of aborted fetuses in medical research has saved the lives and health of millions."
-And millions of fetus that lived on have done great things for society.
yeah thats gray area that are also rare events. I was speaking of the more broad spectrum as a whole.
that's a surprisingly well rounded opinion maximus. the only problem I would have with it is that some laws are necessary to protect the woman getting the abortion. preventing risky procedures, requiring proper training etc.
again, 100% agree! I don't personally believe in abortion(though at one point i did), but i don't think a government of any sort should have a law for or against abortion. I think they should simply stay out of it. I believe in God. I think that everyone has to answer for themselves and their actions at some point and and nobody else is reponsible but them.
I don't want anyone to have an abortion. Unless your health is at risk, it makes me very sad to know that something so special could be snatched away before it had a chance.
But I have no right to tell someone what they should do with their body, as well as the rest of their life. No one does.
Yes as TZW said the simple point is that it's not a baby its a group of cells and it does not breath it does not feel and it can't think. Now, the second thing is that we can see if the baby is going to have development problems. So, we can abort it before it just comes out retarded and dies in a couple of days.
It is a responsibility to live with the consequences of actions. 85.3% of women who get an abortion are single. Of unexpected pregnancies alcohol is a factor in ~70%. Just look a 3/4 chance that a person who gets an abortion is a single woman who drank too much and slept around. You can add rape and defects together and you still get let then 10% of the reason for an abortion.
I understand no can consent with alcohol present. It's not a reason to just act a fool. Rather saying an abortion is right, why not just stop drinking alcohol or putting yourself in that situation, or is that human nature too?
If you think you can't control your own body, why are you being taken care of in a home with people to look after you. Or is it, when there's an out you'll use it, rather then owning up to it.
I had my first kid at 16. Did I or her want it? No, but we knew it was our responsibility now. You may say "Well maybe you had the funds to do so." No, I grew up in poverty as did she. Also that accounts for
Well given that the first part of the joke reads "Liberals don't care if a baby is aborted" on a debate app, I don't find it odd at all.
Let's say they were limitations. Would they be required to show proof of being raped? If so, many actual rape victims will be denied for an abortion. If not, people would just have to lie and say they got raped. It would create illegal abortion clinics as many people believe that woman has a right to her own body. It would create woman attempting to abort it themselves.
Two human beings having a sexual encounter are not making poor decisions. Having a sexual desire, drive is just part of human nature. As the same for all mammals. Not only that, it can be pretty enjoyable. So its's not as simple as "dont have sex" as it's extremely common for us to have sex without the desire to have a child due to our nature. Thats why we have condoms for men and pills for women; but there not always 100 percent. So in result, it leaves many women and men who don't desire raising a child due to career plans,age, being financially unstable, finishing school, and people who are simply not ready to take on a big responsibility. So thats why we have a safe and simple medical procedure that allows women to control whether and when to have a child.
But not only does abortion benefit women, but also benefits science. The use of aborted fetuses in medical research has saved the lives and health of millions.
That was a funny joke!
Odd how it ventured to the topic of abortion. If abortion continues to be legal, I think there should be more limitations and harder reasons for it. I can understand cases of rape (though it is a shame a child is denied the right to live or develop in the world) and lethal pregnancy.
I cannot agree (as someone said before) with teens who make poor decisions or someone who had a few too many drinks. There needs to be consciences for poor decision making and if that child was created by your actions it shouls live. Why encourage a society of poor desicion makers?
I get what your saying. you don't think life starts at conception. the problem is you don't know when it starts. it will do no good to debate this from a religion standpoint, so let's take science. the first brain cells and brain formation happens before an abortion takes place. what do you define brain activity as?
also in a gray area such as abortion, and we have two choices, let's look at the cases that can happen.
LIFE starts at conception- if abortion is legal, millions would be killed.
if abortion is illegal a few mothers will have to go though some pain, most commonly as a result of a bad choice in order to save millions.
LIFE starts sometime after abortion- if abortion is legal, no killing, just not letting life happen. if illegal- bigger chance for life, some unnecessary pain for some mothers.
you see why even if only basic morals are involved, abortion is very risky.
I believe the baby is attached to the mother body. So it is part of the mother... So she can do whatever she wants with it. it's like a tumor, or tapeworm if you don't want it dint have it.
Alex, I disagree that a cluster of cells is a human being. Until there is brain activity, they cannot be said to really be alive. It is the same reason that people are declared legally dead when brain activity stops.
As I said in my previous reply to TZW I do understand both why you are fighting for it and why you cannot morally compromise on it, but can you see my perspective intellectually? As I don't believe life starts at conception, I don't believe it is murder. As such I don't recognize wither the foetus' rights or your right to tell a woman what she can or cannot do. Can you understand that perspective through that lens?
I understand your perspective, and I will never fault someone who believes that life begins at conception for fighting to save lives. The reason I disagree is because I don't believe life begins at conception. I believe life begins when there is brain activity for the same reasons life ends when brain activity ceases. The distinction may come from different educations or concentrations, or it may come from religious differences, but the end result is that I do not see abortion as equivalent to killing a child.
Its fine to believe abortion is wrong. You have your idea when a life starts and other people have a different idea. I do find it hypricritical that you argue the LAW when it comes to immigration even though some people find it morally wrong, then argue against abortion because you find it immoral. A woman is not breaking any laws with an abortion. If abortion became illegal, women will find unhealthy ways to kill the fetus.
again the only chance of an debate you have is talking about a case that happens 1% of the time.
"Birthing a child causes permanent damage to a woman's body. To say that she has to undergo a painful, traumatic experience because she suffered a painful, traumatic attack is cruel. Why does the rights of a cluster of cells supercede her right to control what happens to her own body?"
Dave your a cluster of cells. a human has the right to live. if a woman is raped, it's just like if she is beaten. a guy commuted wrong against her, damaging her body, causing her pain, but she can't do anything.
right to life comes before the right to not be uncomfortable at certain situations.
That's not why women get an abortion though. The majority of the time she had a few too many drinks and got careless. (same goes for the male). The main reason women get an abortion is because the simple fact is she doesn't want it. Abortion is just an "out" now a days. Both males and females should be responsible enough to condone in an act and deal with the consequences.
If reports of why were higher in categories such as health, I would support it. The sad fact is kids are kids. Not necessarily kids as youth, but people who haven't gotten to a higher level of maturity. It's a shame to me that we allow a practice that's medically beneficial during medical crisis be used as a get away from responsibility. I understand it's a woman's body but if a women beat a kid to death (hypothetical here that may seem farfetched) and said it's her body, it didn't justify it.
It is not as simple as "don't have sex" and I suspect you know it. We have covered rape, so I will leave that topic alone, but there are other very good reasons for abortion.
There are times when a pregnancy is dangerous, or potentially lethal to the mother. In these circumstances, would you condemn both mother and child to death rather than save the life of one?
Birthing a child causes permanent damage to a woman's body. To say that she has to undergo a painful, traumatic experience because she suffered a painful, traumatic attack is cruel. Why does the rights of a cluster of cells supercede her right to control what happens to her own body?
the fetus then. ugh. debating with you is so annoying!
let's talk about rape victims because you like to come back to the situation whenever you are losing.
ok, so besides rape only being 1% of all abortions, what makes it ok to deprive the baby of its rights for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? one can still deliver the baby then put it up for adoption. Sue the person who rapped. there is always another way to go then abortion.
Most women get an abortion just because they do not want a child. It is simple if you don't want a child don't have sex. I know there are protective measures, but they don't always work. Just don't have sex if you aren't ready, it is a simple fix. Some people will say they "need" it..... no you don't. You want it.
i agree with this statement for the most part. I know not all liberals are that way but probably most. I personally don't feel a government should have say either way and i don't condone abortion personally. HOWEVER, under people's own circumstsances they have to choose what is best personally in their views. At the end of the day, I can only control my actions and will be held accountable for them just as everyone else is.
nobody wants abortion, otherwise they'd use contraception. however in many circumstances, such as rape, abortion is necessary as two lives would be ruined by having the child.
It takes some cost to produce a bulb which the liberals need to pay but an abortion is at no cost
Oh yes of course. Liberalism seeks to progress the role of the government in personal lives. Abortion was defended by Substantive Due Process, an idea that vastly expands the jurisdiction of the court since it gives them the power to define rights not given in the Constitution. Therefore, we must rely upon the government for pur rights since they deliberate them based on the traditions of America. Remember, Alexander Hamilton in Federalist 1 says that tyranny emerges from the movement of rights rather than the defense of government.
permission not person
There is a program thousands of people go though to get into the us legally.
There is an immigration law that says something like "coming into the usa without person is illegal" if one does something illegal they are crimminals.
if all they do is want to be in america that's ok. it's when they break the LAW and sneak into the us it is bad.
he's saying that the only thing these people have done "wrong" is wanting the American dream. they want the chances that you and I were born with. why does that make them criminals?
so wookie you are saying the law is wrong and we should break it because we think it's wrong.
When the law is wrong and the only thing they are guilty of is seeking a better life for themselves and their family, why should we treat them as criminals?
so we should treat criminals the same as regular people.
liberalssuck I'm not reporting them it's someone else
Alex, it depends at what point you call a foetus a functioning, intelligent, self-aware, person with its own rights. What do you think about the morning after pill, do you class that as abortion and evil or is that okay?
I'm going to assume you don't like the pill either. At that stage the foetus is known as a blastoid, it's just a tiny clump of small cells, perhaps no more than 20 or so and it most likely hasn't attached itself to the wall of the womb. There may not even be a foetus, but a woman has a right to choose to take the pill, whether you like it or not.
It is murder as you so bluntly put it, it is a choice for the individual. Most abortions are done at a stage where the foetus doesn't remotely resemble a baby and there are numerous ways a woman can get pregnant without wanting to, rape for example. Or how about despite taking the contraceptive pill or using condoms, or both together, accidents happen and surely it is better to abort a foetus than go through with an unwanted pregnancy, and have that child put in to an overcrowded adoption system until he or she may get adopted! Or better yet end up neglected as their parents do not have the time or inclination to care for them.
Stop letting your religion govern mind. It is not murder in a legal way as you claim or it would be illegal!
OOPS! sorry liberals see that immigrants are just as much of a person as anyone else
We let people who want a better life take open jobs that they are qualified for
How are they not treated the same? you let them have jobs, you let criminals take our jobs. illegals are criminals because they are ILLEGAL.
Sorry that we want to limit the global warming by giving you a cheaper type of light bulb
illegal immigrants are not treated the same as legal immigrants by liberals. If they get a job and become part of society what's so bad about them
um wookie, it's not religion it's the law. well both have the same rule. NO KILLING OTHER PEOPLE. but apparently breaking the law is cool with liberals. they let illegal immigrants not be punished and ignore the "illegal" part. they let the supreme court change definitions.
why should a liberal care what light bulb I use. maybe I'm rich and can use whatever the hell type of high energy bulb I want. hahaha. why should a liberal care about what money I'm saving, it's only going to be taxed to pay for abortions, and ILLEGAL immigrants.
There is a general trend in heat gain
The statement is incorrect in the first place. Liberals care that every woman should have a choice over what they do with their body. If your religion is against abortion that's fine, you can choose decide not to have an abortion because of your PERSONAL beliefs, but what right do you have over someone else's PERSONAL beliefs? The answer is simple, none. You have a right to your beliefs as does everyone else. What you don't have is the right to impose your beliefs on others.
I live in the UK but I have to say watching the American debate on this subject is ridiculous. America the home of freedom, that is unless your freedom means you can do something I don't agree with!
As for light bulbs, the reduction in energy use is simply good for the environment. But even if you take that argument away, a reduction in energy use means a reduction in energy bills, which equals a financial saving to yourself, and the availability of that extra energy for use elsewhere in the economy.
What is there to object to?
According to NASA.gov
Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. Between 2003 and 2008 a 82 billion ton net gain. Scientists agree on an increase of snowfall is a contributing factor to the growth of sea ice. Scientists say more snowfall is because of rising temperature. However, colder winds blowing on the ice is a contributing factor on growth.
"Antarctica is not currently contributing to sea level rise, but is taking .23 millimeters per year away." - Jay Zwally, a glaciologist with NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
Many scientists admit they don't understand exactly why the ice is increasing, scientists said this. The "evidence" you say are actually only theories right now. Your "evidence" has not been proven as fact
due to complicated weather phenomena ice is growing in one particular place while melting everywhere else. climate change deniers are trying to use that as evidence it isn't happening everywhere else.
Ice in the poles has always been there but in the coming years due to our unchecked industrialization we will see melting in the poles
also, tons and tons of eggs go through the body that don't get fertilized. Some make it to the sperm, but don't a lot don't get out. An aborted child would be just like those that didn't make it. If you're going to call the fetus a human being, then you may as well arrest every man who has fertilized an egg that didn't make it, or every female that has had a fertilized egg pass through her body. You literally don't know what you are taking about. (paraphrased from Bill Nye)
Alex, can you cite scientific articles supporting your opinion that this disproves global warming? It has been covered in other debates that this argument does not actually support your denial of climate change, so either support your claim or stop making it.
it sucks how people kill inocent human life, also it is very interesting that global warmming is causing ice to appear in the south pole.
sorry that we like women choosing what happens to their own body and not killing our great grandchildren with our global warming.