The debate "Modern feminism is a joke" was started by
January 1, 2020, 7:34 pm.
27 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 10 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Nemiroff posted 3 arguments to the disagreers part.
Liam, rusianjudes, LitleTortilaBoy, StrangeTime, Dez000, Huzaifa and 21 visitors agree.
Nemiroff, rainbowsocked, eli and 7 visitors disagree.
The group I brought up was an example of a local group that identifies as a men's group. They avoid media attention because men's groups are easily spun in opposition to female rights. So I'm sure there are other groups since I only know about the existence this one from a family member.
what have mens groups done for men?
i have explicitly stated that womens effects on mens rights had been indirect. mens effects on mens rights has been effectively zero. maybe an isolated male historic figure or 2, but no groups.
I was mostly responding to this "modern feminism has done more for mens rights then men have". I don't agree. As you said, the benefit to men that feminism creates is indirect. Men's groups do more for men (at least here) than feminist groups from what I've seen.
everything is a buffet. christianity is a buffet. that doesnt mean a loud but tiny pedophilia offshoot can be used as an example of christianity in general. same for isolated nobody feminist bloggers.
is it womens job to highlight how things affect men? how would they even know how things affect men? the positive effect of feminism i was citing is indirect, due simply to their challenging of the idea of gender norms in general. how can a women speak to how anything affects a man?
i dont see how your aunt relates to feminism, the thing is that nobody except for some obsessed activist is entirely a feminist and nothing else. i am a feminist in a sense, but im also an advocate for men, for poor, for migrants, for citizens. the fact that she helps DV male victims doesnt add or take away from her potential feminism.
im not picking and choosing who is or isnt a feminist, im picking and choosing who is or isnt a representative of feminism in general. the distinction between these is not insignificant. the feminazi blogger may be an honest to god feminist, but she doesnt necessarily represent anyone but herself, much less a movement. critical mass is necessary for that.
It's easy to pick and choose the foods we love and hate when we're eating at a buffet. The problem is, feminism is a buffet. It's far more than a single theory, ideology, or movement. It's an umbrella term for many different things that are united by the concept of gender.
Without getting into all the theories, the one I agree with passionately is the benefit of separating gender and sex. That's the one you're saying modern feminist political movements are fighting for, especially with respect to toxic masculinity. What I think is unfortunate is most approaches address how toxic masculinity affects women instead of how much it affects men. I have seen very little done by self-identifying feminist groups to inform men on why the expectations of masculinity can negatively effect their well-being. That's why I think duck all has changed about toxic masculinity beyond virtue signalling. At least in the city I live in and in the media I consume.
But in my neighborhood there are many political groups who reject the feminist title who still frame masculinity as something that needs changing.
My Aunty sometimes does pro bono cases for male DV victims. She gets those cases from one of the groups that focus on changing the perception that men are immune to abuse and should feel safe to open up about it. They very actively reject identifying as feminist, even though they would probably be classified as feminist by anyone making a claim that feminists help men more than MRAs. That's because there are so many flavours in the feminist buffet it's easy to pick and choose beliefs that make anyone a feminist or not a feminist. It's as arbitrary as gender.
im assuming your referring to feminazi feminism.... thats not a thing. a handful of isolated bloggers with tiny followings, mostly of alt righters obsessing over them.
what is a joke are modern mens rights movements that only hate on feminists instead of actually fighting for mens rights in places like family court.
modern feminism has done more for mens rights then men have by challenging the gender norms that lead to high rates of stress and suicide amongst men.