The debate "Obama is worse then Trump on listening to advisers on foreign policy." was started by
April 2, 2016, 8:27 am.
13 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 13 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
There is a tie in this debate, post your arguments, call some reinforcements and break this tie.
Alex posted 17 arguments to the agreers part.
historybuff posted 4 arguments to the disagreers part.
Alex, fadi, Pugsly, burntoast2000, ProudAmerican888, oscar90000, cancer_wins, mike5193 and 5 visitors agree.
Upbeatethan, historybuff, Cannon2cool, LeviRay, BhargavSharma and 8 visitors disagree.
care to say why you disagree?
imagine a country like isreal having a army bigger then iran's and having a nuclear defence system. woukd iran bomb them? hell no! that's why nobody bombs us cause we have such a big military. yet they still could do damage because we have no defence system. and I gave you facts that our planes are past their lifespan. that isn't too scary for the enemy. so if planes are dying and spending is dropping we can't replace these planes. think of the world in 20 years with continuing rising threats and shrinking military. that is all I have to say on this issue.
tale another look at my facts. you will see
1.Russia has the power to nuke us, and deal serious damage
2. we have no modern defence system
historybuff- again we train so we don't have to fight. the Navy power I gave from from the source you gave, so by saying the source is not creditable you are discrediting your own source. and america right now isn't helping our alies, and our alies hate us.
Navy power according to who? assigning "power" ratings is arbitrary. aircraft carriers are the most powerful tool for a navy. America has 19 aircraft carriers. no one else comes close.
America also has half the world as allies. it is absurd to think that America has to defeat everyone by themselves. with their NATO allies they can take on most of the rest of the world combined. there is no reason to think that America is going to come under a conventional attack any time soon. there simply isn't anyone who could succeed.
when you accept that fact, spending more money is an absolute waste.
and if it scares anyone iran has more multiple rocket launch systems then the US, and is only 18 points behind in the Navy strength. iran is so much smaller then the US, but we are only barely beating them in navy power? that's weak.
if you want to play the "who has more" game let's play!
Russia has just under 16,000 tanks whereas the US has about 8,500.
Russia has 3x the number of multiple target rocket launch systems.
Russia has 4x the number of self propelled guns.
China has a Navy strength of 714 while the US has a much lower 415. ouch. that doesn't sound too good.
China also has over twice the manpower of active military personnel.
so when I say "air force" why do you think it's ok to list all the branches? the air force us what is the weakest since 1950. I've proved this. I've also proved how our aircraft is on average 27 years old of a 20-30 year lifespan.
does that seem powerful to you?
one may see those numbers and say "well the attack spending is decreasing to build defence against nukes since that's more important" that would be a logical thought. however Obama scrapped, not only our defences, but our alies defence systems too.
so what do we know for a fact?
1. the air force is the smallest since 1950
2. the aircraft are passed/about to be passed their lifespan.
3. we have no modern defence system.
what do we know about other countries?
1.Russia hates us
2. Russia could easily nuke us (Obama's "reset" plan didn't work out too well.
3. Iran could be making a bomb
4. Terrorists could get their hands on nuclear weapons.
I don't like the look of those facts.
and I just linked the source.
aircraft doesn't just mean air force. both the Army and navy have large air sections as well. when you combine all American branches of service they have about 13,000 aircraft.
I gotta say about the potus being "smart enough to realize they would be wasting even more".. The guy does more wasteful spending on his own liesure than anyone before him. The deficit has jumped substantially since he has been in office.
I've found 3 sources to just over 5,000 aircraft and given you 2 of them. please give me a source for your 13,000 aircraft. this may be the easiest debate win I've ever had.
where the hell did you get 13,000?
you've used this source before.
and the current air craft is just over 5,000.
According to the USAF, the average age of its aircraft is 27 years.10 Most aircraft have an original lifespan of 20 to 30 years.
According to the Air Force, however, readiness has been declining since 2003.17 This trend was further aggravated in FY 2013 by the implementation of sequester, which cut spending on readiness. In FY 2013, flying hours were reduced by 18 percent, and 17 combat-coded squadrons of 40 (43 percent) were temporarily stood down.18
and your source is...
since America approximately 13,000 aircraft at the moment I'm not sure what statistics you are using. the next largest air forces are 2000-3000. they have about 5 times more aircraft than anyone else. why do you think they need more than that?
Obama scrapped all mile defence systems to make us faverable with Russia. how'd that work out? well now Russia hates us, can nuke us, and we have no defence.
The figures for 2009 show 5,988 total aircraft (4,460 active, 375 reserve and 1,153 in the Air National Guard). That?s a lower number than any year going back at least to 1950, the earliest year tallied in the report. So while we don?t have data going back to 1947, the specific year Romney cited, his claim about the size of the Air Force seems credible. -liberalbias (politifact)
of course the air force has shrunk a but since 2009.
please provide a source where Obama wanted to cut spending that much. it seems wildly unlikely. the American people love their military. even if it doesn't make sense they would never allow spending to be cut that much. it sounds like a load of crap to me.
and PRE-WWII doesn't sound too small to you?
so your saying Obama is smarter then a unanimous decision from his military experts? your saying Obama is smarter then his secretaries of defence so he doesn't have to listen to them?
we've been through this. America spends more than the next top 10 spenders combined. several of those 10 are America allies as well. America is already spending WAY too much on its military. if Obama's advisors were telling him to waste even more money then he was smart enough to realize it was bad advice.
People are afraid of what trump will do to america, but ignorant to what Obama has done. Obama's former secretary of defence says "less money now is more American blood later" isn't that what trump wants? to spend now so we don't have to fight later? I've said this before, I've even tried using movie refrences but you still don't get it yet. or maybe you do and won't admit it for some reason.
I saw a show last night where Obama's last 3 secretaries of defence said Obama did not listen to them or the majority. one even said he felt "double crossed". The chief military guys advised Obama against cutting the air force to pre- WWII size, but Obama didn't listen.
Trump we see has put together a team of smart people and says he will listen to them and take their advise.