Obama refusing to go to the former supreme Court justice's funeral is shameful.

February 18, 2016, 6:42 pm

Agree22 Disagree15

59%
41%

The debate "Obama refusing to go to the former supreme Court justice's funeral is shameful." was started by Alex on February 18, 2016, 6:42 pm. 22 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 15 people are on the disagree side. That might be enough to see the common perception. It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.

Alex posted 19 arguments to the agreers part.
Freyja posted 1 argument, PsychDave posted 13 arguments, Nox posted 1 argument, PoliticsAsUsual posted 3 arguments to the disagreers part.

Alex, ProudAmerican888, codewesker, MinuteMan101, xaveragexjoesx and 17 visitors agree.
Freyja, PsychDave, RyanWakefield, progressive, project_mayhem, Nox, gentle&nice, PoliticsAsUsual and 7 visitors disagree.

PsychDave
replied to...

So Alex, which of the judges friends and family should have been told they couldn't attend to make room for the president and his security detail? Obama DID pay his respects to him so, despite all your whining, he did his duty to someone who served the nation for so many years. The funeral is for friends and families and is not a state affair.

You and those like you are trying to find reasons to vilify Obama and have latched onto this to the point it has actually taken away from the memory of the person you feel should be honoured. You were so concerned with attacking Obama that it overshadowed any coverage that would have honoured the judge, which is more shameful by far.

3 years, 9 months ago
PoliticsAsUsual
replied to...

your making the part about Obama knowing the judge up.

why should a president care if people who are already bias against him whine some more about a completely insignificant and irrelevant gesture.

and it may not be much out of Obama's way, but the president of the US comes with a hefty security footprint for the rest of the attendees.

3 years, 9 months ago

He knew them pretty well. he also knew people like me would give him hell about it. he refused to go anyway. he doesn't care, he's going to leave office soon anyway. now if he was running for reelection he wouldn't have skipped. it's only a couple hours out of his day, he doesn't even have to say anything.

3 years, 9 months ago
PoliticsAsUsual
replied to...

but we is he required to attend? were they friends? family?

3 years, 9 months ago

this is the 2nd funeral obama has skipped. hillary went, but later apologized.

3 years, 9 months ago

isn't a funeral a personal event?
if they weren't close personally, why should Obama show up?

3 years, 9 months ago

Obama is very selective with his funerals. rebublicans are not on the list.

3 years, 9 months ago

Dude, Alex, I need to level with you. I might not like Obama, I don't hate him, I don't blame him for everything (still for some things), and I don't give him nearly as much credit as other people do. But the funeral does nothing, it isn't what puts a person's soul to rest and it's much more of a public relations issue if anything. I also think Hillary has done things that should be looked into and remembered, if not held accountable for. But she isn't relevant in this case either!

Obama didn't attend the funeral, even if he had an expectation to, it wasn't his duty. Everyone at the funeral may have been people who cared for him. My former boss committed suicide, and when I attended the funeral, there were so many people they couldn't fit in the church. He wasn't particularly religious, but if he saw how many people came, he would have likely cracked "fandom so big can't even fit in the parking lot". And I am under the impression that everyone there cared for him, if there was someone who didn't, I'd be surprised. If one more person could fit, that would have been appreciated. If a person left or didn't attendI would have thought of it as a trade in space for someone who cares more. After the funeral, some man walking his dog asked us about what was happening, because he had never seen so many people at the church.
I promise to make my point. I also have a friend who didn't really like him. It wasn't because of who my boss was, it was that my boss off of the job was a complete ******, possessive, he cheated on and with other women. Not to say he was even evil, but had ****** tendencies that really defined him. In this case, their first meeting didn't go well for some reason (I didn't see it happen, so I can't say), but ever since my boss was on the offensive. I did try to get them to reconcile, and they tolerated each other. If my friend only went to the funeral because my boss was also my friend, I wouldn't have seen it as something he should do. If he gave a heartfelt speech I would have puked over how fake it would have been.

The funeral isn't held for those that died, but for those left behind. At least one person needs to dig the hole, with a shovel or even by hand. If there are enough people, their fingertips wouldn't get bloody if they tried without.

3 years, 9 months ago
Nox
replied to...

you're losing

3 years, 9 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

You also may want to do basic research before commenting. Hillary Clinton has served as a US Senators and Secretary of State, both of which have responsibilities. Again, I don't know that she would make a good president, but your claims that she has no responsibilities is groundless and untrue. Could you try to restrict your arguments to things that are not lies?

3 years, 9 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

How many CIA agents have been exposed because of her? Right, none. So perhaps Republicans should keep in mind that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Does your new approach mean you have conceded the debate since you are not even trying to justify your position?

3 years, 9 months ago

ok Clinton has no responsibilities, she can go out on TV and read classified information emails?

3 years, 9 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

1) Obama knows that even if you seem to not.

2)Clinton is not president, and has had positions of authority, so she would understand better than you what that entails. I don't really think she would make a good president, but that is irrelevant to your inane insults.

3)I don't need to try to find reasons to insult Bush. I can accurately relate facts that are common knowledge, and they are insulting enough.

3 years, 9 months ago

"Being president is actually a job, that has responsibilities."

Someone should tell Obama that, and tell Clinton she has responsibilities.
also stop trying to find excuses to insult bush.

3 years, 9 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

So because you don't know, you are going to pull a random low number out of your ass? That doesn't really seem credible.

Why should he have to lie to make you feel better? Why should he have to tell you anything about what his plans are? He didn't announce what he would be doing Thursday at 1pm either, so why does he suddenly owe you an explanation? Being president is actually a job, that has responsibilities. You may have a job that you can drop everything whenever you want, but I'm pretty sure running the most powerful nation in the world places a lot of demand on Obama's time.

I get that you are looking for excuses to insult him because you don't like him, but could you try to justify them with rational reasons instead of making up percentages you have no evidence for about topics you don't actually know about?

3 years, 9 months ago

why can't he make something up? or say he has "president stuff" to do. a use it looks like he will be sitting at home doing nothing. so from what we know he is skipping cause he chose to. a President can say "I have other plans" without telling what those plans are. I'll give it a 1-2% chance this is the case.

3 years, 9 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

We could just ask Bush. He has no problem damaging national security by talking to the press.

3 years, 9 months ago

What percentage of the president's schedule is published? There is a decent chance that he has plans, but what they are will determine how justified he is in not attending the funeral.

With respect to your atheism comparison, we know national security meetings happen, we just don't know when or how often. In that way there is substantially more evidence to support it than religious belief. I have repeatedly said I can't say that he is justified, just that I won't judge him without knowing anything of the situation. You are condemning Obama because it suits you rather than on evidence.

3 years, 9 months ago

oh I know how we can find out! check Hilary Clinton's emails. see if there is any info on a scheduled February 20 meeting.

3 years, 9 months ago

I understand what your saying. if Obama had a super top secret meeting, and couldn't say anything about it, I would say it's ok.
I'll use an atheist argument here and say that there is 0 proof Obama has a meeting he can't tell us, so why should I believe?

you don't believe things without proof, so why should i?
and the chances are so small that this is the case.

3 years, 9 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

I will try to use small, simple words since you seem to not understand even though I have already said it.

He might not be able to say since some parts of his job are secrets. The president does important things, and some of them shouldn't be told to reporters. I will give an example from the fairly recent past.

As previous president was an idiot. He gave the name of CIA agent who was in the field. That should have been a secret. That is why the president can't always tell you what he is doing or who he will be talking to. If that's still to complicated let me know, but I'm not sure how much more I can dumb it down.

If you don't appreciate the tone of this reply, perhaps you could start reading all of the arguments you are replying to so that you don't ask a question that has already been answered.

3 years, 9 months ago

"Without knowing WHY he is not attending, you should not judge him."
so why doest Obama say why? everytime a question of whether or not to attend a funeral, I think of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry went to the old lady's funeral despite the fact he just met her. Now Obama could say "I don't like the guy, so I'm not going to his funeral" that of course would be the truth, and liberals have trouble with that. and even if that is the reason he should go out of a sence of duty to a guy who served his country happily for 3 decades, and was liked by liberals when outside the court.

3 years, 9 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

You really need to work on your literacy. Meetings with our allies AGAINST ISIS was what I said.

I also don't know what he will be doing on Saturday, but I am not going to automatically vilify him without knowing.

3 years, 9 months ago

Good reasons do exist, but there is 0 evidence for Obama being busy Saturday. And I doubt, and I hope he isn't doing secret meetings with ISIS.

3 years, 9 months ago

Purely hypothetically, if Obama is scheduled to have a conference call with Putin and other world leaders about the war against ISIS, it would not be able to be rescheduled to allow time for him to attend a funeral. It is also something he should be involved in since the US is one of if not the single largest participants in the fight. It is also something he couldn't necessarily just tell the media about. I would consider that a valid reason to send the VP and not go himself.

Obviously I don't know that such is the case, and I don't know how likely it is, but the president does have many duties and many of them are time sensitive. At the same time many of them should not be discussed with the media in advance since it can do damage. I am not saying Obama has a good reason not to attend, just that good reasons do exist.

3 years, 9 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

I wasn't answering what I want you to say, I was asking a question. Was Clinton insulting the justices whose funerals he did not attend? I am trying to get you to look at both sides of the situation rather than taking offense at something that is not necessarily meant to be offensive.

The president will pay his respects, he just will not be at the funeral. It could be because he honestly did not respect Scalia so going would be hypocritical, it could be because he doesn't want his presence to be the center of attention rather than the service itself, it could be because he has a call scheduled with another world leader that is not public knowledge and rescheduling would be difficult or impossible. There are many valid reasons for him to not attend, and as many invalid ones. Without knowing WHY he is not attending, you should not judge him.

3 years, 9 months ago

stop answering what you want me to say. but what I said. I said all I want Obama to do is show up, if he makes a speech I'm not sure what it would be about, maybe service to the country?
HistoryBuff you have yet to give me a quote or Action Scalia did that makes him a terrible human being.

3 years, 9 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

That is why I said relatively recent, there isn't a lot of precedent since it is rare.

Would you rather Obama went and made a speech at the funeral? Since they disagreed on almost every topic, what could he say that was respectful and honest? I would rather he paid his respects, but did not turn the funeral into a photo op. A funeral is not an appropriate venue for a president to make a political statement so, since Obama would probably not be able to attend without doing so, he should respectfully not attend.

3 years, 9 months ago

there has only been one death of a serving supreme Court judge in the last 60 years. there isn't a lot of recent examples to go by.

Presidents don't always go to retired SCOTUS judges. I don't see why being current really changed things.

that statement was extremely racist. how does that not show his racism?

and we evolved past an eye for an eye a long time ago. the fact that he didn't know that shows he wasn't a very good judge.

3 years, 9 months ago

death=death is how Scalia saw it, there is nothing wrong with that. now how was he racist? any more quotes.

3 years, 9 months ago

"It is also not unheard of for the president not to go, and there have been several relatively recent examples."

actually this is the FIRST time that a president has not attended the funeral of a active supreme Court justice.

3 years, 9 months ago

that was supposed to be "you want a fair death penalty" not want to fear.

3 years, 9 months ago

I didn't call him a disgrace because he disagreed with my views. I called him a disgrace because of the things he said and the decisions he wrote.

" you want to fear death penalty? you kill; you die. that's fair."

he believed in the use of torture as a means of gathering evidence.

he was a racist. he said black students shouldn't go a good university. they should go to a slower one they could do well in.

he said homosexuality was comparable to murder, or cruelty to animals.

that's just the start of the terrible things he said and believed. the country is far better off without him.

3 years, 9 months ago

I cam certainly understand where you are coming from Alex, but I don't think it is inherently shameful for the president to not attend the funeral. He will be paying his respects, and the VP is going to the funeral. It is also not unheard of for the president not to go, and there have been several relatively recent examples. I think it would be more shameful if Obama went and it turned into a photo op. I also find it fairly shameful that the media is focusing on this to stir up controversy and drive ratings rather than honouring him.

3 years, 9 months ago

and for future advise when your calling someone a terrible human being, please back it up with some Damm good evidence.

3 years, 9 months ago

MrShine
I'm not asking for Obama to say he's a friend, but only for him to attend his funeral.


HistoryBuff
I thought you had a little bit of logic and smartness, I am wrong.
You can call him a man who disagreed with your views, you might be able to get away with calling him a bad judge, despite the fact he interpreted the constitution as the founding fathers wrote it.

now calling him a terrible person. wow, I mean wow. Even liberals were good friends with him. Outside the court he went on trips with the liberals on the court opposes to his ideas. so you believe the reason Obama isn't going to his funeral is because hr was a terrible human being who deserves no honor?
your the first person I've heard say that. even most extreme liberals will grant him some respect. Obama is at least doing something Friday. it seems your alone in your hate towards Scalia, why only you?
I'll tell you, saying he deserves no honor, and he was a terrible person, that looses what little respect I had for you.

3 years, 9 months ago

he was a terrible judge, if not a terrible human being. why would the President want to honor him?

3 years, 9 months ago

I would agree that people do have a choice in going to funerals, it's just that depending on which ones you go to or if you gives speeches says enough about the person. I would get that, like many people at funerals, people would say heartfelt lies about people they haven't met, because it's easy to like people they don't know.

Whatever his thoughts were on the previous supreme Court judge, it's always a good idea to seem involved and amenable, so it is expected even if unwritten that he should go. So is it bad taste? If he didn't praise or call him a friend in life or after death, it is somewhat unexpected but not bothersome. If it were like he did nothing but compliment and name drop him as a friend, then that would be distasteful.

3 years, 9 months ago

And it isn't like Obama doesn't go to funerals either pretty much canceling your statement.

Senator Daniel Inouye (D-HI)
Less than two months before the 2012 election, both Obamas took time out of their schedule to attend the funeral of Senator Inouye.

Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV)
Despite Robert Byrd?s well-known ties to the Ku Klux Klan, President Obama attended the Democratic senator?s funeral. Obama gave a speech at the ceremony and called him his friend.

Reverend Clementa Pinckney
Reverend Pinckney, who also served as a South Carolina state senator, was one of the nine people killed in the Charleston shooting last summer. Despite never having met Pinckney, President Obama delivered his eulogy.
so Obama did go to a funeral of someone he didn't know...

Former Democratic House Speaker Tom Foley
Just six months after snubbing the funeral of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, President Obama attended the funeral of former Democratic Speaker of the House Tom Foley. As he tends to do when actually attending funerals, he gave a speech.

Walter Cronkite
When the legendary newscaster passed away in September 2009, President Obama found room in his schedule to travel to New York for the memorial service. Once again, Obama gave a speech at the service. He had openly admitted that he never met Cronkite.
strange pattern Obama seems to have...

3 years, 9 months ago

hmm, I don't see you point, but I'll tell you like it is

"People die all the time. Why should we expect other people to care, even if we do? Why give people you know preferential treatment over those you don't know? If you're going to care about people you know, one could make the argument that you're morally obligated to care about others as well."

Scalia wasn't just a regular american like you or me, he was a f*ing Supreme Court Justice! He served our nation 30 years until he died, and what does the president do? not go to his funeral, ****. I don't see how you can attend ones funeral if you don't know that exist, so your last part of the statement is false.

If you aren't going to care for the others, let's not pretend that those you do care about are more important. That's what one is doing if they disregard others' deaths, no? But you can't care for everyone's death because there are too many deaths in the world. I'm certain that you don't.

so caring for 1 death is worse then carting for none when you are completely free, and the 1 death was someone you know and someone who served you.

So how is it fair to complain that someone does not care about another's death? Is it because you do and so, because of that, they are being objectively wrong in their doing? Or is it because you want that person to do as you would? I could be wrong but your argument seems irrational to me.

Obama doesn't care, we know that, but he could at least go to the freaking funeral. it's the right thing to do, and we all know it.

Finally does Obama expect any conservatives to go to his funeral? I bet Scalia would have gone to Obama's funeral happily, because Scalia was a great man. Obama is now like Clinton, not caring for the American people, especially the greatest american people.

3 years, 9 months ago

People die all the time. Why should we expect other people to care, even if we do? Why give people you know preferential treatment over those you don't know? If you're going to care about people you know, one could make the argument that you're morally obligated to care about others as well.

If you aren't going to care for the others, let's not pretend that those you do care about are more important. That's what one is doing if they disregard others' deaths, no? But you can't care for everyone's death because there are too many deaths in the world. I'm certain that you don't.

So how is it fair to complain that someone does not care about another's death? Is it because you do and so, because of that, they are being objectively wrong in their doing? Or is it because you want that person to do as you would? I could be wrong but your argument seems irrational to me.

3 years, 9 months ago

Hates*

3 years, 9 months ago

Simply shameful that Obama would let us know how much he disrespects a man who sat on the court for 30 years, and was loved by conservatives and liberals. and it isn't that Obama doesn't have time either, he has nothing to do Saturday. I think Obama is trying to piss off americans, or he simply Hayes Scalia.

3 years, 9 months ago
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