People are forcing equality the wrong way and it is making things worse

August 8, 2016, 8:47 pm

Agree27 Disagree7

79%
21%

The debate "People are forcing equality the wrong way and it is making things worse" was started by dalton7532 on August 8, 2016, 8:47 pm. 27 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 7 people are on the disagree side. That might be enough to see the common perception. It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.

dalton7532 posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
historybuff posted 5 arguments, Nemiroff posted 3 arguments to the disagreers part.

dalton7532, Ali001, thereal, moneybagboyz, Austin7779, sabrina, itsme1, Bodaciouslady16, SwaggerPoptart, hunadi, north, zainab and 15 visitors agree.
historybuff, Nemiroff, charlieholmes and 4 visitors disagree.

Affirmative action is the current policy. Quotas are current policy?

2 years, 11 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

You are the one claiming the current system is terrible. It is substantially better than doing nothing, so as yet it is the best system proposed in this debate. I in no way think it is perfect, but that so far makes it the right way to try to promote equality.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
replied to...

What is the governmental solution that would best benefit?

2 years, 11 months ago

I don't oppose capitolism. But unrestrained capitolism is completely untenable is a modern society. the government is there to represent the public good. Capitolism doesn't care at all about the public good, only about its own personal profit.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
replied to...

You just oppose capitalism. Its a valid policy

2 years, 11 months ago

by doing nothing. your leadership would be inspiring.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
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Youre not ignoring it; you are choosing the safest possibility.

2 years, 11 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

So to solve the problem, you still suggest we ignore it?

2 years, 11 months ago

They are marginalized by failed government policy that had particular good intentions that didnt pan out. HUD hurt people. It made intercities which has higher amounts of blacks crime centers. That is the deterioration. If you are surrounded by fiflth, you drift to it.

2 years, 11 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

So again you propose doing nothing and hoping the problem goes away? I'm glad you aren't in charge of policy.

As for your argument regarding a loss of independence and culture, that is a direct result of historical discrimination. Look at any marginalized group throughout history.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
replied to...

And are you really trying to say that blacks are in poverty since they dont have affirmative action? What about the deterioration of their culture and independence? What about making it so that they must live around only others in poverty, and destroying any successful influence in intercities? People left for a reason, nobody wants to be stuck in those government created crime spots. It shows the spirit of bills is not always reflective of its results.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
replied to...

Im saying there is no good way to improve it. If the guy publicly makes clear that the guy cant be employed because he is black or whatever, that is one thing. But that isnt the case now. We cannot prove intent, and cannot look beyond circumstantial evidence to why someone was hired over the other. The best way is to find a job elsewhere. Affirmative action isnt a legitimate solution. Its effects are not efficient, and creates an additional racist spirit to the hiring process.

2 years, 11 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

No, you say they are doing it wrong, but have not suggested how they could do better. That means that, while you don't like it, you have no idea for a better system. If you can't propose a right way to promote equality your argument that it is being done wrong loses nearly all weight.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
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That isnt my job. You wish to impose further policy, not me. And the policies you wish to implement are discriminatory.

2 years, 11 months ago
PsychDave
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So present a solution. You complain about affirmative action, you say fighting blatant racism is to hard to be worth doing, so what exactly do you think is the right thing to do? If you honestly think there is a better solution than affirmative action as it is implemented today, what is it? Sitting around complaining about blacks getting jobs because they are black helps nothing. Complaining that they are sitting on welfare because they don't have a job helps nothing. Present a better way to promote equality or admit that the current system is better than what you could offer and agree that people are doing the best they can to promote equality.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
replied to...

A sting operation. Just because you hire a white guy over a black one, it is racist? And enforceable.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
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Im saying how do you correct it? By reversing the racism towards whites with affirmative action? What is the remedy?

2 years, 11 months ago

and then you complain that they live of welfare or commit crimes saying why don't they get a job, then you defend the system that is keeping them from getting a job... do you not see the horrible catch 22 your putting them through, and then your shocked at why these people give up and lose faith in their country.

sounds extremely hypocritical.

2 years, 11 months ago

it's not subjective if the resumes are IDENTICAL and can be easily enforced with a sting operation done exactly like that study.

yes it hurts the employer in a marginal way, but it hurts the people getting rejected significantly. how far do you expect them to travel for work if employers consistently discriminate. this study was repeated several times with similar results. this is wrong.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
replied to...

What. said presents the folly of racists. They lose out on capable candidates.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
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And is affirmative action, hiring based on race alone, the proper solution? No, it isnt. The issue is more complex.

2 years, 11 months ago

your answer is exactly what racists want to hear. that there should be no attempt to combat their racist policies because it's too hard.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
replied to...

Because a resume's reception is subjective, you cant hit the nail of the head of why.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
replied to...

There isnt a way to enforce it without hurting quality employees. Its a difficult thing to prove discrimination, but they can always apply to other places. The business is juat hurting itself.

2 years, 11 months ago

let's not forget the studies that showed that identically resumes with black names get much fewer call backs. is that fair? I would prefer that those employers just go to jail or pay a hefty fine, but is doing nothing right?

affirmative action has very substantial merits, although I feel there are better ways to remedy the situation.

2 years, 11 months ago
PsychDave
replied to...

It depends on what you define as affirmative action. I this the most qualified candidates should get jobs, but there have historically been some groups discriminated against. If it takes government regulation to force businesses not to discriminate, it might not be popular but it is necessary. If lesser candidates are being hired because of government quotas, that is not a good thing.

There are other aspects of affirmative action that I do agree with, such as education incentives. By educating marginalized groups, it improves their situation, and consequently the rest of society as well. By investing in their future, everyone benefits in the long term.

2 years, 11 months ago

Forcing equality is great the correct way. However, some people have a distorted view of equality such as affirmitive action, which is the opposite of equality. It lowers the standards by race essentially stating they worse at a certain role in society. Do you agree?

2 years, 11 months ago

so you disagree with the debate topic then? forcing equality is the mark of a great society. all people are different but equal. there are alot of people trying very hard to deny that and forcing equality to move forward is sometimes necessary.

2 years, 11 months ago

I understand what your saying though

2 years, 11 months ago

some people think equality means men and woman should be treated equal. me and you know what it means, but such a high amount of people don't know what it means, thus creating confusion

2 years, 11 months ago

do you even understand what the word equality means alex? I'm starting to doubt that you do. your description of equality sounds like a defininition of uniformity.

people can be different but equal. that is still equality. men and women are different and also equal. that is what equality means.

2 years, 11 months ago
RogueAmerican
replied to...

The problem with equality is that action is often replaced by complacency. For instance: nobody would doubt Ivanka Trumps competence, but there are women who advocate for equality but don't actively pursue and prove it.

2 years, 11 months ago

PyschDave:
that's a good question.

2 years, 11 months ago

historybuff we had this debate before. equality isn't always good. men and woman aren't equal. some people think they are. being unequal does NOT mean one is better then the other, it simply means they aren't the same and most of the time should NOT be treated the same.

equality is such a big term that gets interpreted 20 billion ways in the media. it's insane.
is a woman a terrible human being If she doesn't pay when on a date with a guy? no.


just to humor you, replace "gun control" with "equality" in your statement.

2 years, 11 months ago

I'm curious what you think would be the right way to promote equality.

2 years, 11 months ago

because equality isn't a choice. it is a basic human right. anyone trying to refuse equality is a terrible human being.

2 years, 11 months ago
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