The debate "Pretending God exists HOW DARE HE give innocent children cancer." was started by
October 16, 2019, 5:24 am.
61 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 111 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
K1VK2DF posted 1 argument, diecinueve posted 17 arguments, Light posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
dinosaurrawr posted 1 argument, RoyDierlijk posted 1 argument, jrardin12 posted 14 arguments, Bnice80 posted 8 arguments, Nemiroff posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
K1VK2DF, Mice, diecinueve, MightyJackalope, Agrumentman, Millenialist, Facundo4261Arg, Entropyrose, Light, Helloguys, Liam and 50 visitors agree.
dinosaurrawr, sajjath, YEET, benmiller123, RoyDierlijk, elly, HopeleSSJames3925, Jemjem13, Bnice80, Oheythere, wolf, Dij748, Wolfie and 98 visitors disagree.
Humans thinking they know more than God is the reason we suffer so much. Thanks ADAM. God is PROVING Everyday that without Him, we don't stand a chance. Again, thanks ADAM!
God didn't give that job to Satan. God didn't give any job to Satan. Satan takes it upon himself to tempt us because he wants as many people in Hell with him.
God did know the choices they would make.
this whole.mythology is nonsense.
if god is so all powerful, how did he not see 2 betrayals coming, especially since he designed the betrayers and im not sure how much free will angels got.
it is quite clear that any devil is simply doing the job god gave him, to punish the wicked and to test the untested. this boogeyman nonsense is childrens tales to get dump people to behave.
Neither Paul nor Jesus said we belong in Hell, Hell was made for the Devil and his angels. Mat. 25:41
God did not turn His back on creation. We turn our back on God.
but he didnt. he still involved himself with us throughout the old testament. it is the modern era that saw gods retreat from us, not the original sin.
After the forbidden fruit was eaten God distanced himself from us because he is all good, and us having betrayed him meant we had some bad in us. By eating that single fruit he told us not to God turned his back on all his creation and let it fall into the control of the demons... So it was technically a second fall because Satan and the demons had already fallen prior to humanity eating the apple, and we only ate it as a direct consequence of that first fall...
What is this?
it's part of the curse from the fall
Was it Jesus or Paul that said we all belong in Hell?
Because we are all sinners and God is Holy and perfect.
We would all be in Hell.
Why would they all be in hell?
But wouldn't it be great if Heaven does exist so that those kids can have a perfect life free from disease?
Ladies and Gentlemen. Religion is a touchy subject, naturally not many agreements on the reality of existence itself to be sure. However if you believe in God, in a heaven where you will never suffer, never want and will see those you love after you have passed, please believe. On the other hand, if you subscribe to the belief that the universe came out of the darkness in an ever expanding mass of particles and matter. Where science and logic rule supreme and will inevitablely end far far from this point of history, then please believe. We all have free will it comes with being human we ask questions and try our whole lives to find the answers to why you and I exist at all. These questions are valid because we don't have any answers to them no one person truly knows what the nature of reality actually is, so saying that one answer is better than any other is to put it lightly, is arrogance. Is God just waiting at the door of every delivery room just waiting, fangs at the ready to give children cancer? Just a guess here but probably not. In fact since those who suffer the all to common blight that is cancer have generally a shorter life span because of radiation and chemo treatments and the disease itself. They have a far greater interest in the afterlife and who is cold enough, callous enough to look into a kids eyes and tell him or her that the only hope that graces their minds when pain is unbearable and the days are spent too weak to move, that God that heaven isn't real that God did this to them. Religion and faith is hope I'm not a believer in God or organized religion that argument is for another debate. That fact is we all search for answers we're on a debate site right now which wouldn't exist if we knew everything. So instead of all capped opinions let's try to gain some insight, learn and figure out how to talk with judgement and opinions being given their own time and place.
It's better to have hope for a perfect world we can live in than that there be a perfect world devoid of people who are all in Hell.
Is it better to have a future hope for a perfect world than to live in a perfect world?
God cannot get rid of suffering because in order to do so He would have to get rid of the sinners (us). But, because He loves everyone He has given us an opportunity to one day live in a world without suffering. One day He will come and fix everything man has broken and make it perfect. He prolongs His return so that people may have a chance for that future hope of a perfect world to come.
to have a disease throughout your life is not to suffer little, and even if it were, God could make you suffer nothing
if God is omnipotent, he could end suffering
What I will say is suffering doesn't come from God. Suffering is the result of a sinful and corrupted world.
they are strongly influenced by their environments and predecessors
Job had to come to know his strengths and make his decisions for what it was he was living for.
knowledge was vast and merely limited to one species of fruit. that fruit being temptation, representing sin. all the while, adam knew the repercussions to taking this one fruit. therefore God had simply laid forth the option of choice between "good and evil", "right & wrong". the building blocks that lead a soul on its tangible journey
Adam was the forefront of humanity. He was merely the foot that lead. from there, given freewill all were given the opportunity to choose between 2 paths as they journeyed forward. In times of sick children dying, perhaps it was the actions of parents/health workers/family whose "sin" was being tracked/measured. the child merely being part of the scene. However, though shortly suffered, we are assured their young/pure souls were quickly given peace in passing and ascending.
who's to say Adam was a physical individual
how was everyone punished?
the ability to sin
a soul's purpose to experience, grow, effect & ascend
if God is omniscient, he already knew that Job would be faithful, so it was not necessary to make him suffer
That is why I said sometimes. The story of Job proves that suffering can have a purpose.
If you don't know what the purpose is, how do you know it has a purpose?
I don't know. Only God knows. For Job, suffering was a test to see if he would be faithful.
However, suffering wasn't a part of God's creation.
Sometimes suffering is for a purpose.
And all the years he suffered? Why not take them directly to heaven before birth?
I will say that when a child dies before he is conscious of his/her sin they immediately go to Heaven.
They are born with a sin nature.
What sin did children born with illnesses commit?
Not so, because you still sin without Adam.
then God punished everyone for what one person did. That is unfair
Because we all come from Adam. sin is now a part of our nature.
Why didn't God punish Adam alone instead of punishing many innocents?
Adam's sin brought death into the world. Before Adam sinned there was no disease or death.
What is the fault of children born sick of what Adam did?
God never said knowledge is bad. Sin is bad.
a god who says knowledge is bad and demands we be obedient pets in his garden is not a god worthy of worship. maybe out of fear, but certainly not love.
Disobedience to God is bad.
free will is very broad. we all have free will, but some people are more curious then others. some people are more risk takers then others.
do you think curiosity and knowledge are bad?
What Adam had was free will. He decided to use that free will to disobey God's command. Once he broke that command sin and death entered the world. Cancer is a part of death.
whatever fruit it was, how does knowledge = disease.
and clearly Adam had the tendency for sin from the beginning as per the design of god, not satan.
1. It wasn't an apple. 2. The point is that they disobeyed God. And every child is born with the natural tendency to sin.
how does eating an apple containing knowledge bring forth physical illness?
God doesn't give disease to people disease came into the world because of Adam's sin.
sorry, for got to reply to you with the previous post.
some children are born with illnesses well before they can comprehend anything as complex as theft and lying. their still working how how to move, breathe, and swallow.
transposition of the great arteries is a condition where the main vessels of the heart are reversed and useless. very fatal.
anencephaly is a condition where the baby is missing the top of its skull and/or brain. very few survive.
cystic fibrosis causes all of your passages, from breathing to eating to become blocked with thick fibrous mucus.
all of these are conditions a baby is born with well before they are capable of learning anything. what kind of a screwed up evil jester god would do such a thing intentionally? i do have an explanation all the way back in the first post, but i dont think it will agree with your (imo insane) pray the cancer away ideology.
Are children taught to disobey, lie or steal?
What sin did the children commit?
God has set the rules and the punishment. Sexual deviants have the choice to repent or perish.
But children are sinners.
But God said not to murder, then he wiped out an entire city because they loved sex too much. Does that mean it's moral to kill sexual deviants?
children with cancer did not disobey God, it is unfair that they pay for the acts of others
Man brought sin, death and diseases into the world because he chose to disobey God.
No, we can't. Because He did not cause sin. Man brought sin into the world. Cancer is a result of sin and why there is entropy. God said, "In the day that thou eatest of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil thou shalt surly die."
We can call him a hypocrite though
you cant judge god on morality because hes the author of morality.
that is the dumbest think i have heard in a long time.
Cancer is the result of sin.
Satan nor God give people cancer. Job's case was special.
from my understanding, satan is meant to indirectly corrupt and decieve people. he doesnt have the authority to just randomly put cancer in someone's body.
in the story of Job, satan petitioned to god for god to test Job's loyalty, and for god to send diseases and misery on Job. satan could not do it himself, whether a lack of power or authority. although it does seem like satan deceived god into bringing misery onto a loyal subject....
also god made satan.
God doesn't give people cancer Satan gives people cancer. God would not give you something that would possibly kill you.
If we go by what the bible said then natural evil is just fallen angels causing terror. That's a form of angelic free will.
but he could have created physical laws where there is no suffering
that address the question of moral evil, but what of natural evil, like childhood cancers?
And omnipotence doesn't give the power to commit logical fallacies. He can't give us genuine free will and the illusion of free will at the same time. If he wanted to give us genuine free will this is what the world would look like
Holden didn't have power over a driver's free will, and neither does God. He explicitly valued genuine free will over perfect design
ummm. But seeing as God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent he should be able to prevent such things.
It's like saying, "Holden created Holden cars, how dare he allow so many car crashes to happen?" Just because you create something, you cannot 100% prevent freak accidents and if he knew that the rate of people dying from car related accidents, maybe he wouldn't made them. Just be glad that while horrible things happen, we should be glad to be here and have the oppotunity to actually be alive.
i dont believe in god, but i can make a decent argument to counter the problem of evil.
if we assume god wanted to make a world that is discoverable and understandable to us, (meaning a world that works via physics and not magic), then cancer is ineviable.
cancer is caused by gene mutations, which is caused by repeated cell division. cell division is a basis of biology. considering how small the number of people afflicted with these childhood cancer, it seems the system was optimized as good as possible. sure this is a weak argument to the *individuals* suffering from illnesses and their families... but in the grand scheme they are the exception not the rule. most people live good healthy lives, and the fact that reality is understandable to us is a good thing, imo.