The debate "Religion is something you shouldnt discuss. Everyone believes and puts faith in what they want" was started by
November 3, 2016, 8:22 pm.
29 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 55 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
Nemiroff posted 5 arguments, Clint1234 posted 2 arguments to the agreers part.
TheExistentialist posted 9 arguments, neveralone posted 7 arguments, Godisnotdead posted 1 argument, Cdawgthree posted 5 arguments, Clint1234 posted 3 arguments to the disagreers part.
Nemiroff, Proking and 27 visitors agree.
TheExistentialist, neveralone, north, metheonlyme, Your_dad, Ematio, ProfDoke, Godisnotdead, Cdawgthree, Peak_Points, Clint1234, JDAWG9693 and 43 visitors disagree.
I understand lol. Just don't take it the wrong way when I respond with a passion strong enough to challenge that stubbornness
your argument is the nonexistence of an external reality. forgive me for being stubborn lol.
Ironic coming from the person who's only function is to deny the opposing argument...
There is a difference in being antagonizing/challenging to your opponent (like me) and in being ignorant to/blindly denying your opponent. One harbors an antithesis while the other breeds nothing, but only puts a wall between them and their opponent.
debate is only war if you simply want to win rather than pursue truth.
debate in pursuit of truth is a cooperative activity of mutual benefit, not a competition to destroy your opponent.
What? I didn't call you anything. but anyways.... This is war! This is debate! All is fair and nothing is personal.
You could at least be nice about it
You don't need to call me names, I just misunderstood
Alright yea that does sound a little crazy huh
This is like saying art shouldn't be discussed or judged just because everyone has different tastes.
How nihilistic of you.
You shouldn't judge them about what their religion is, that what god will do.
In my religion, Christianity, we are here on Earth to spread the gospel. We are told to share our beliefs. If we didnt tell people our beliefs then we would be letting them burn in hell and not even giving them a chance to think about everlasting life in heaven.
u definitely do it differently than the average bear and I will make sure I do just that
I can certainly do that... Although it is sometimes fun to argue for positions which I don't actually believe in.
i hope going forward you judge me not by the conclusions of my arguments, but rather by their strength and my etiquette in debates. I will however try and point out where my personal views diverge from the necessary points that I must accept to hold a consistent position.
yeah you are right
it might help avoid confusion.
No worries. I definitely argue positions rather strongly and embrace the necessary conflicts those positions create and sometimes don't separate my personal views from the nuances that I must defend in order to hold a consistent position. I should probably make disclaimers about where my personal opinions end and necessary implications of my reasoning begin.
OK now I understand.
the 6k world thing Idk on haven't bothered don't think it's important. though is big debate between churches.
I think that it happened but that God could of made more people since He is God. eight probably didn't cut it.
I don't believe in any of those besides giants and I think they might of just been humans with a tall gene in them that were labeled giants.
again apologize I read a dif. tone and I sometimes assume to much an working on it
I don't really care if you're offended by the notion of ridicule because the right to free speech necessarily includes the right to offend. I don't think that ridiculing you simply for the act of being a christian is right or that it is necessarily appropriate, but I do maintain that the freedom to do so is necessary and should be defended at all costs. This is sort of a touchy subject because what I'm arguing for isn't necessarily what I believe. I don't, for example, think a interpretive believe in Christianity, Islam, etc... are ridicules in and of themselves. I only find certain aspects of fundamentalism ridicules. However, I believe in free speech more than anything and thus I have to defend the right to offend all, the right to ridicule all, and the right to scrutinize everything. I don't believe in racism, but I have to stand up for the racists who wish to voice their opinion out of principal, not because I believe in the BS they're spouting.
We all have biases, and I certainly am no exception. I have a bias toward finding humor in (what appear to me at least) nonsensical beliefs. I happen to think you don't actually believe any of the parts that I, personally think are ridicules about christianity. I doubt you believe that the earth is 6k years old; I doubt you believe that Noah's flood story is a literal story and that we all came from 8 people about 4k years ago; I doubt you believe that there literally were unicorns, dragons, giants, etc.... as described in the bible, the list goes on. I think most Christians are interpretive believers rather than fundamentalists. However, if someone tries to sell me on the idea that Noah's flood is a true account of history, I'd have to chuckle a little and part of me couldn't help but borrow Jim Jeffries' line and say: "well, we certainly have a lot of diversity and very few retards for the amount of inbreeding that must have happened".
As I said though; I would never engage in a debate with this tone and you also have never seen me take this tone with you or anyone else on this app.
I agree that not every aspect of religion is subject to ridicule, but that's mostly because it's just not crazy enough to be funny.
see when I read that what am I supposed to say? "wow u think my religion and way of life is crazy?" no matter what ur religion or lack of is a part of u and when u insult someone's religion by extension u r insulting them. for example when u said what u did above what I get out of it is u think my religion is insane and to an extent that would require me to be insane. though this particular one doesn't offend u should be able to see why somone would get offended.
I agree that not every aspect of religion is subject to ridicule, but that's mostly because it's just not crazy enough to be funny. I also agree that it's poor debate etiquette. However, as a general statement for society: everything is fair game for humor, as a subject for debate, and subject to scrutiny; if it isn't, then nothing really is.
I can agree with that nemiroff.
and I general I reserve ridicule as a last resort argument style, for the "head in the sand" most stubborn of individuals.
to sum up. one can ridicule individual aspects of a person's belief, but when it comes to the undisprovable fundamentals, we should tread with caution and respect.
I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents.
there is a difference between religions and your everyday run of the mill superstitions. although one can run studies demonstrating how walking past a black cat, or opening an umbrella indoors does nothing to increase bad luck, we have no way of studying what happens after death.
I routinely ridicule a strict literal reading of religious texts but the fact is that most traditional cultures pride metaphorical story telling and debate style, so it would be silly to assume their texts would be straight forward as our culture assumes.
when it comes to unprovable beliefs it would be presumptuous to ridicule from a position of ignorance. for all we know a being may have spoken to our ancestors with guidance, although I would argue against the perfect and benevolence of that being as I doubt our primitive ancestors would be able to adequately judge them. a modern person with a large clip gun, a helicopter, and access to Wikipedia would also appear perfect, all powerful and all knowing to them.
So satire is out of the question for you then?
"The book of Mormon" musical did nothing but ridicule the Mormon religion. It was an award winning musical.... Seems a shame to deny that to our society.
Monty python did nothing but ridicule religion for the most part.
Charlie hebdo did nothing wrong when they published their Mohammed cartoons which made fun of islam. Your stance seems to fall in line more with the Muslim radicals that shot up the newspaper than free speech.
As for my ego. I'm perfectly fine having my beliefs ridiculed and offended. If you're going to interact with different belief systems you have to be OK with sometimes being the butt of the jokes.
I can also respect a person while not respecting a belief they hold. The two are not mutually exclusive. It seems like you want to create a dichotomy of absolute acceptance or absolute disrespect while the reality is much more complex.
A belief is just a belief. It's not a person. It shouldn't be afforded the same level of dignity or consideration as a person.
that's funny that u say that it's on a pedestal since in that mind set ur just pushing off people trying to help people and replacing them with a dictator.
a) I would never make fun of ur beliefs though I will point out flaws. there is a diff. ridicule makes it where u are saying x belief is stupid and shouldn't be considered. while pointing out flaws is a respectful way of asking about certain areas that have wholes in them. key word is respectfully which seems to be something u can't do.
b( again there's this thing called respect which u seem to lack.
c) ur ego is the only thing I see on a pedestal
d) talk. yes. insult. of course not I wouldn't insult ur lack of belief but I usually have questions.
e) it's all our rights together that make us great.and the people here.
f) again challenge yes insult no
I'd say in the US it is. You may not be liked, but it's hard to imagine violent repercussions for speaking against any religion. Having lived in Europe for a while as well, I'd say it's pretty much open season there too...especially considering they're much more secular than the US.
I'd also say that the hallmark of a free society is the right to voice any opinion no matter how offensive it is. There ought to be no strangle hold on discussion, debate, or public speech. I'm staunch believer in the 1st amendment, and that it, above all others, is the greatest part our constitution.
As far as followers of islam go, I'd say many of them are fine with having their beliefs challenged. Those that aren't, and those that want to pursue violence in reciprocity for speech are enemies to the ideals of liberalism and humanism.
..... I'll get off my soapbox now.
so religion is safe to talk?
It shouldn't be though. We've put it on a pedestal for far too long. Why should we treat it any different than any other superstition?
very hot blooded people
specifically, if you talk about islamic people, they would probably turn violent.
religion is a very dangerous thing to talk about
You don't think it should be subject to ridicule (be made laughable)? Do you also think people shouldn't offend believers?
That seems strange.... To offend someone is simply the act of confronting their own insecurities with regards to their beliefs. To ridicule is to shine light on nonsensical aspects of a belief system with humor or contempt.
I'd argue that someone who holds the belief that the earth is 6000 years old is ridiculous and should be subject to ridicule. I'd argue that if someone believes there was a global flood 4000 years ago that wiped out all but 6 people should be confronted and those ideas should be offended with facts.
If someone genuinely believes in the flying Spagetti monster, shouldn't you be able to ridicule that belief?
then what should we do???
I agree that it should be questioned but that is all
Absolutely, emphatically no!
Religion is just like any other belief; it should therefore be challenged just like any other. There is nothing special about religion that should make it immune to ridicule. No one cares what you believe in, the rational and the workings of your beliefs are subject to questioning however. If the questioning of religion offends someone, then I say good. It means their beliefs have been appropriately challenged.
Question everything, ridicule all beliefs, challenge every faith, offend all that do not wish to be questioned and eventually you'll have strengthened your own convictions and maybe thrown out a few as well. Steel sharpens steel. How will you know what you believe if you never have your rational for it examined?
making a topic taboo doesn't help anyone. it only hardens opinions and widens divisions.