The debate "Rooting for the failure of the President or Country is unamerican and a harmful philosophy" was started by
July 25, 2018, 12:31 am.
21 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 7 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Nemiroff posted 5 arguments, Alex posted 4 arguments to the agreers part.
historybuff posted 2 arguments to the disagreers part.
Alex, Nemiroff, luljeta101, SaffronSHAM3, Debater1127, mrcontro and 15 visitors agree.
historybuff and 6 visitors disagree.
I dont mind offending someone with an insult, but threats against critics from a leader is undemocratic. this isnt regular trolling, assuming a world leader should be a troll to begin with.
yes I want America to succeed, but most of his economic gains were in his first year before any policy changes came into effect and in anticipation of corporate tax cuts that were mostly used for stock buybacks. where are the jobs and raises those cuts were promising?
does this not seem like just continuation of Obama prosperity with extra capital gains which barely helped main street? and even then most the stocks stalled out in year 2.
unlike the narrative coming from the right, Democrats have been eager to work with trump on everything from proper tax reform (closing loopholes + cuts), infrastructure, and a trade confrontation with china. it cant be helped that he started a simultaneous trade war with everyone, simply gave a handout to the investor class, and I'm not sure what happened with infrastructure but it looked like a costly future full of toll booths. how was Obama treated by the right? was there any sign of agreement? or were they resistant to everything no matter what, even a free market cap n trade solution promoted previously by other republicans was rejected and ignored out of pure spite.
as for CNN vs trump. just because 2 sides are against each other doesnt mean they are both equally wrong. CNN certainly focuses on trump too much, but their focus isnt entirely unwarranted. even if you appreciate a troll for a president, many do not. it is entertaining as heck, but when you remember he is representing you, it becomes more than a bit embarrassing.
"I absolutely want any president to succeed in their task of being a president, but if a president has ulterior self serving or showman trolling goals that threaten the nation, I absolutely want them to fail in those goals. it's not the policy points that concern me."
I can agree with that to an extent. as a American and a voter, I don't really care if the President offends someone with a tweet every now and then as long as the country is doing great.
you say you want america to succeed. now answer the Question: Do you want America under Trump to Succeed?
Trump does try to destroy people or organizations who try to destroy him. that's an issue on both sides. if either side gives up, they will be destroyed. Trump wants CNN gone, CNN wants Trump gone.
would you have accepted peace with nazi Germany in exchange to turning a blind eye to all their misdeeds?
I absolutely want any president to succeed in their task of being a president, but if a president has ulterior self serving or showman trolling goals that threaten the nation, I absolutely want them to fail in those goals. it's not the policy points that concern me.
everyone hates being criticized, but as a person seeking *public* office, it's part of the job. however, trump not only pushes back at criticism, he retaliates, demonizes, and punishes the critics. do you really believe that is acceptable behavior for a leader of a free nation? if the highest authority and leader of all national enforcement agencies retaliates against critics, dont you think that will make honest critics think twice out of personal concern? is that a good value for a free nation? I'll assume the answer to both of those questions is no.
it's one thing to not like criticism, its another to not accept it, and its next level bullshit for a public servant to punish criticism.
I don't think anyone wants America to fail. they want America to succeed, and trump is doing the exact opposite of that.
no one cares that trump doesn't like criticism. they care that he attacks and tries to destroy anyone who criticizes him, even if their points are valid. from the family of dead war heros to news papers that dont flatter him non-stop to members of his own party. anyone who does kiss his a** at every opportunity is ruthlessly attacked. that is not normal for anyone, let alone an elected official, even less so for a president.
good point with Nazi Germany. wanting it to fail would be the right decision.
However if you haven't noticed we aren't in Nazi Germany.
"Trump is Destroying the country and alliences" As much as I'd love to tell you all the economic progress trump has made, that's not the topic of this debate.
this debate is on whether or not you want him to destroy the country. If Trump created peace with Russia, Iran, N. Korea, strengthened alliences, and created the best economy in years would you be ok with that? I hope so, instead you might get mad because a policy contrary to yours worked, and Trump was successful.
my point here is not that it's wrong or unamerican to disagree or speak out against the country. the question is whether or no you want the country to fail. wanting america to fail on context of political difference with the president is unamerican. You certainly have the right to speak out against the president in a nonviolent way in accordance with the Constitution.
Also you attack Trump for not liking criticism. who likes people who criticize them? Speaking out against criticism is certainly understandable.
I suppose it depends on context. let's use a hypothetical. if you were living in 1930s Germany would it harmful to want Hitler or Nazi Germany to fail? in retrospect we know it leads to WW 2, genocide and the division of Germany. trying to make your government fail can be constructive if the government itself is destructive.
since Trump is currently destroying America's place in the world, destroying your alliances, undermining the corner stones of your democracy and at risk of triggering multiple wars; he is extremely distructive.
may I ask a question?
this is clearly in response to my post regarding his repeated and open attempts to silence or demonize any and all critics.
I understand not wanting to engage in that sarcastically worded thread, but to completely disregard this assault on democracy and pretend that people "just want him to fail for seemingly no reason" is mind boggling.
do you think that standing up to a national leader actively retaliating against critics is unAmerican? wtf is American then?
please, wake up!
you mean like when McConnell and the rest of the Republicans swore to make obama a 1 term president?
however, protecting the nation from a wanna be dictator who retaliates against any critics internal or external, is not wishing for failure but defending the nation you love. I remember Democrats being very excited about infrastructure and draining the swamp with Trump.