Secularism is sometimes a big problem.

November 4, 2016, 10:37 am

Agree19 Disagree12

61%
39%

The debate "Secularism is sometimes a big problem." was started by Blue_ray on November 4, 2016, 10:37 am. By the way, Blue_ray is disagreeing with this statement. 19 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 12 people are on the disagree side. That might be enough to see the common perception. It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.

neveralone posted 9 arguments, Radhikadhawan posted 3 arguments, Blue_ray posted 2 arguments to the agreers part.
Nemiroff posted 3 arguments, TheExistentialist posted 5 arguments to the disagreers part.

neveralone, Radhikadhawan, TheTrueScotsman, dalton7532, Rakesh, Ematio and 13 visitors agree.
Blue_ray, Nemiroff, TheExistentialist, PsychDave, north, jack_tim_45 and 6 visitors disagree.

neveralone
replied to...

maybe everyone doesn't instantly go for the bad. but I agree it's easier to say and harder to do

2 years, 3 months ago
Radhikadhawan
replied to...

Easy to say, difficult to practice... Maybe everyone is not like you

2 years, 3 months ago

hey I'm Christian and I don't hate anyone. ur generalizing a whole group of people. we are taught to love not hate.

2 years, 3 months ago
Radhikadhawan
replied to...

This is because there is not so much diversity over there as in the northern parts of India (anyways I m very proud of it). I hope u have heard the news of kashmir.. If yes, you must have realised the basis of my arguement

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

and let me clear you, iam from north east. We dont have such silly communal violence.

North East is best oh yeah!!!! ;)

2 years, 3 months ago
Blue_ray
replied to...

are you talking about India especially those western parts?

2 years, 3 months ago

I think the problem is we all want secularism to be there but we never want to follow this idea.. Christians hate Hindus, Hindus hate Muslims, Muslims hate Sikhs and the chain goes on making a complete circle of hatred.. In reality we never practise secularism

2 years, 3 months ago
TheExistentialist
replied to...

No worries, I think we're all squared away

2 years, 3 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

forget it was a mistake.

mixed up our conversations was referring to the laughing about a part but nevermind its redundant now.

I know again mixed debates. never a good idea

2 years, 3 months ago
TheExistentialist
replied to...

"u have in other arguments."
---I'm not sure what this is referring to.

" just because u can say what u want doesn't mean u do. my faith is a part of me. it can't be separated but ur somewhat right...."
----I've never asked you to separate it. I also doubt that you can point to an example where I've ever dismissed your position simply due to the fact that it came from a position of faith, nor have I ever made fun of your position rather than argue it. I may not have accepted your argument, however, that was never due to the "source" of your argument. I've always explained to you why I reject certain arguments that you've made (using the bible as proof for God constituting circular reasoning). That's not ridicule, that's not being dismissive, that's simply utilizing the rules of logic to object to the structure of an argument.

2 years, 3 months ago

it seemed to be up ur alley also was a joke.

u have in other arguments.u know there is a saying that " it's better to be silent and thought stupid than open ur mouth and confirm it" just because u can say what u want doesn't mean u do. my faith is a part of me. it can't be separated but ur somewhat right. I will try to draw back

2 years, 3 months ago
TheExistentialist
replied to...

I don't think I voted on that. I don't really vote on most of the frivolous topics.

I've also actually never ridiculed your beliefs. However, I maintain that I have the right to. Look back at our debates. Not once will you find me making fun of your arguments. The only thing I've said is that religion is subject to ridicule like every other belief. You then took that to mean I find you personally ridiculous somehow. You're taking this all way too personal.

If you feel like I've been unfair to your position in any of our arguments you should have made that case there (you never did) instead of retroactively trying to spin my arguments into personal attacks.

2 years, 3 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

it's fine he thinks I'm wrong but he goes past that to say it's ridiculous.

2 years, 3 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

so I bet u put on the I'm always right vine agreed

2 years, 3 months ago
TheExistentialist
replied to...

@neveralone.
I think the reason for debates between two religions being easier is simply that there is an unquestioned assumption built into the debate (there is a God). In a debate with secularists you're forced to forgo that assumption. The secularists also present the "stronger" evidence. By stronger I'm referring to the virtue of it being testable, repeatable, and proven to be true, not necessarily how convincing it is. This makes theological debating much more difficult for the theist seeing that they don't have the assumption of God, have no physical evidence for it, and the remainder of the pro Christian, pro Islam, etc... are predicated on the existence of God.

I don't know if I agree that secularism is intrinsically more inclusive than religion, however I do believe it is intrinsically less exclusive.

On a side note: I do present a rather strong case when I debate, and isn't that what we're supposed to do when debating... It's not conversation wars. It's nothing personal. I just enjoy debating. In the clearly conversational threads we've interacted in I think I've been perfectly amicable to your views. It's just when it's a debate subject, you bet your a$$ that I'm right and you're wrong. Debating is for the audience, not the participants. I almost wish more people would vote on the arguments more than the subjects.

2 years, 3 months ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

does he not have the right to believe you wrong?

intolerance has many levels, your life is safe, as are your opportunites. you can't expect to regulate personal beliefs.

2 years, 3 months ago

I disagree that it's more tolerant in some cases. u and me seem to tolerate each other well but the existionalihst seems to think if u don't think like him ur wrong. if this offends anyone I apologize I'm just saying what I'm seeing

2 years, 3 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

again these things are in the past. besides extremist we are a ton more tolerant which is pretty good

2 years, 3 months ago
neveralone
replied to...

exactly. I'm not saying it's only them. its really everyone but I seem to get this feeling from secular groups more than anyone. I have talked and debated about my religion vs. another in person( haven't seen a vine about two diff. religions:-(. ) and we have done it without ever sounding like the other sides opinion is wrong. also we seem to accept our arguments better because usually it can deal with stuff we can't 100% prove and we realize that u can't prove or disprove these things so we accept all sides. sometimes. admittedly not always.

2 years, 3 months ago

if anything secularism is by far more tolerant of other views than religions have been. in a religious view the "heathens" are practicing profane sacrilege against the true god(s), while secular view just sees silly people doing unnecessary things for illogical reasons. even if they turn out to be wrong, it doesn't seem like something that will motivate most people to burn someone at the stake or tortured them into conversion.

2 years, 3 months ago
TheExistentialist
replied to...

It's not a problem of secularism. It's a statement of rational. Every truth claim about God is mutually exclusive. The Jewish faith is exclusive to the Christian faith, the Christian faith excludes Hinduism, etc.... The only common thread tying them together is a supernatural entity or entities. Just because atheism doesn't have its own version of the supernatural doesn't make its exclusion of the supernatural any more unique.

2 years, 3 months ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

don't all religions also do that? that seems to be a universal human flaw, secular or not.

2 years, 3 months ago

when it says everyone else is wrong.

2 years, 3 months ago

when has secularism ever been a big problem?

2 years, 3 months ago
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