The debate "Should players be able to protest during National Anthem NFL" was started by
November 14, 2017, 7:15 pm.
By the way, Muluken is disagreeing with this statement.
30 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 24 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Nemiroff posted 13 arguments, historybuff posted 4 arguments, dalton7532 posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
Muluken posted 2 arguments to the disagreers part.
Nemiroff, historybuff, M_Rose, the_Analyst, mustufa, Leschavin, dalton7532, neveralone and 22 visitors agree.
Muluken, portugues1999, hindsightnow, soccer19, Mac, afterlife27 and 18 visitors disagree.
There are teams that do not support kneeling, and they would like to fix that. However, their right to run their team they want is being challenged, and I disagree with that. On top of that, when players/employees start to become in control, it strafes away from the original vision and professionalism it once had. For example, you can know blatantly break rules and not get in trouble for it. If this was not a political issue, you would disagree with that, and tell them to send a complaint and keep abiding by the rules until they are fixed. You wouldn't condone to continue breaking it until its fixed, or at least I hope. For the most part, did we fix civil rights by breaking the rules or mass legal protest around 1963?
"An NFL spokesman said Monday that players would not be punished for breaking a league rule that says they must appear on sidelines during the national anthem. " - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/09/25/anthem-kneeling-isnt-aimed-veterans-and-other-nfl-protest-misconceptions/701409001/
the NFL teams could certainly fire them if they wanted. but they would lose millions of dollars and gut their teams to do it.
it is in their best interest both as a society and financially to support the players right to protest.
but the employers and the NFL are mostly supporting the players so....
The NFL is a business. If they want their players to stand, they should stand. You are hired to represent the NFL, and what that business stands for. If you do not like it, join another organization. You have freedom of speech and free will, and you can kneel for the anthem. The employers also have the right to fire you if they don't like how you act, and should have that right.
idk. to me they seem to work hand in hand. definitely. I try to stay away from it but it is partially human nature to join people like u.
Also, it's in no way just races. people can stick together based on religion, nationality, gender. anything can be used equally for this purpose.
well yes, all races to it to some degree, but is it the primary motivator or just a small factor? Like I said, the shared experience could be a strong reason why they empathize with other black people. not just taking the side of the guy with the same color, but literally being in the same boat.
I would say both. all parts of society do it. no matter if ur white, black, or pink with purple pockadots?. we still do it. so we still have problems.
Are they simply standing with their race blindly? Or is it a matter of shared experience where the members of a certain group almost all face similar discrimination? (or a combo of both). most black people don't have fatal encounters, but most have had tense encounters where guilt was assumed based on color and neighborhood. And after a few years of routine stop and frisks, the simple act of cooperating with the police becomes demeaning.
they all feel this, and even the killing thing isn't a new phenomena, the only thing new are the cell phone video evidence. I'm not sure if it's always just solidarity, although the white supremacists may be just that.
I'm talking more about society in general. when something happens. whatever it may be people (albiet naturally) stand with the person of the same ethnic group before even asking questions or even if it's right. and also in simple ways we separate ourselves in conversation and groups. it's small but it builds up. it shouldn't even be a factor but we all make it one. wether it business like not hiring a certain ethic group or u blaming it on that when really he wanted someone better suited to the job or many other ways. we all seem to factor it in. I would say all sides need to stop doing that or we won't truly be on the same level. because we all choose to be on different levels.
I'm alittle confused by your implication. who do you think so drawing lines by ethnicities? The authorities that target the ethnicities or the ethnicities that unite together against the authorities?
I don't think authorities are targeting ethnicities per say. they are just enforcing old rules and tactics (Like we need to be extra strict in poor neighborhoods), which end up targeting primarily ethnicities without the intent.
the ethnicities are banding together just our of necessity. remove the necessity and it'll probably a unified force on holidays or something.
I'm not quite sure what you meant with that statement.
actually I was going to suggest a middle ground but I decided that this is a middle ground. their not doing anything too severe but they do feel like this needs to be addressed. so I guess I switched sides.haha. but it saddens me that we still draw lines by ethnicities. none of us should feel allegiance to someone just because their the same ethnic.
ideals are more important than symbols of ideals
And now alot more are doing it for another reason. solidarity with their comrades. also justified imo.
the whole point of protesting is to draw attention. why would you want to prevent them from drawing attention to what you yourself acknowledge is a problem?
they haven't hurt anyone. they haven't disrupted a game. they haven't even inconvenienced anyone. this is probably the most benign protest in human history. people have literally burned themselves to death in protest and gotten less attention than a guy kneeling.
but you are still forcing them to show respect. what if they don't feel respect to the nation that labels people protesting unjust police killings as terrorists while defending the rights of neo Nazis to march?
you yourself stated that their situation is screwy.
again I'm fine with them protesting its where they are doing it. there is a time and place. and people looking up to them. they don't like how things are run? fine tell a reporter or make a video or one of the million of ways to protest.
the right to protest is critically important in a free and open society. they aren't interrupting the game, they aren't stopping the anthem from being played. they aren't inconveniencing anyone in any way. trying to prevent people from protesting when they aren't causing any kind of problem is tyranny.
to not do it is disrespectful as well though. sure you don't need to but u can't really get mad when people say your being disrespectful.
I don't understand either but I know they do. there's a time and place for everything. if a soldier isn't happy with his/her pay do you think they would kneel? no. because they are an icon just like the players. you can disagree with what the country is doing, we all do in some way or another, but to be disrespectful to it as an icon isn't right.
also what do you mean our service men die for our freedom? our army is disproportionately black and other minorities dying not for our freedom but for their own. enlisting to get the proper education and healthcare (aka a future) that this country normally denies them (or at least makes far more difficult then it needs to being the richest and all)
on the other hand you have rich people who dodge service from bush to trump. Let's cut their taxes!!!
you want to respect our servicemen? take a knee!
here's a real Republican and a real veteran on this issue:
(didn't realize Paul Ryan was in this too. not who I was talking about and he only defended their right to speech, not showing support. still I don't think he's a vet so who cares).
Those soldiers you are talking about faught and died to keep America free. they didn't didn't fight to force American citizens to keep quiet about very important issues.
if anything it is those who are trying to silence protest who are disrespecting the troops.
You fail to lose your curse of blindness to the cause of the whole bended knee swagger play . You advocate taking some form of action against those who are taking action against those you actually ignore the transgressions of.
Are you really ignoring all false god police as strongly as you advocate ignoring all of the NFL?
The NFL players aren't taking a knee against normal masked robbers and burglars only because they aren't known to wear flags whilst out plying their craft to put food on their table.
I think you are confusing the pledge of allegiance with the national anthem, but regardless,
these athletes are not doing any activity to disrespect the anthem besides not participating in it. the only nations that mandate patriotism are dictatorships like China. insisting they must participate in an anthem or pledge against their will is the biggest disrespect to our nation and values.
I would argue that it is still not right. i understand they have the right to protest, and that they want to make their side heard. i also understand that they are kneeling for a cause, but thats not the way to do so. the flag symbolizes many things including the fallen soldiers of this country. to sit there and protest in front of the people that protect your rights to even protest, is self defeating!!! Find some other way to raise awareness nfl players. wether it be on social media platform or some other way. dont sit there and disrespect the country. people are losing intrest in the nfl and i hope more do until the nfl literly stands up for whats right
The point is: they and the quarterback in the shotgun position are openly opposing those who only scramble to make money while in possession of an actual gun they are willing to use shoot to kill. These players wear the same flag as those they oppose. They take a knee within the battlefield unless they want to really embarrass the opponent.
I never understood why people venerate such insignificant professions as athletes, actors, reality stars, and models. these athletes who are fighting for justice, wherever they choose to do it, are already more worthy of being looked up to as role models then all the other idiots whose claim to fame is throwing a ball around. and they are risking all of their fame, wealth, and status to do this.
Although, if they did decide to take the knee mid play, that would be a different story. I'd still support their motivation, but also their firing.
there situation around them does suck. I see it everyday too. but I also know we have a system that can change that. I'm not against them wanting to change that situation. only that it's when they are doing when there supposed to be working and where kids look up to them.
for famous football players though it isn't too hard to do things along this line.
that's fine when your not on the job where people look up to u.but when they look and see you disrespecting the nation they will do the same. once they put on that helmet it doesn't matter what their personal opinion is. they have to think about all those who look to them for guidance.
getting on live t.v. randomly isn't that easy, and what kind of audience do you expect.
besides, what if they simply don't want to show respect to the nation that treats their people, and their family, so horribly. is this some sort of dictatorship where respect is demanded instead of earned?
What if they don't want to show respect to something that they don't respect. most athletes were not born rich, and had they not had a gift of throwing and catching the ball they know what kind of situation they would have been damned to. many of their friends and family may still find themselves in that situation. maybe there isn't much to be proud of for them.
why not simply go on live television and just say it to the world? that is a pretty simple way that isn't disrespectful at all.
so protesting in their basement where nowhere can see them would solve the racial issues America faces?
they aren't harming anyone. they aren't burning flags. they are drawing attention to rampant discrimination in a peaceful way. it is perfectly valid.
Players should not kneel during the national anthem. it is very disrespectful to the flag and the country itself. Protesting on live television in front millions is not the way to solve a racial problem. I blame the NFL for not doing anything about this. I agree with what the president said