The debate "SuperMan Vs Goku" was started by
January 20, 2020, 7:35 pm.
By the way, Dez000 is disagreeing with this statement.
30 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 15 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Nemiroff posted 33 arguments, Dez000 posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
Dez000 posted 3 arguments, Nemiroff posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
Nemiroff, Sparkytusk, Jile, SpecialShaw, chickenfordiner and 25 visitors agree.
Dez000 and 14 visitors disagree.
again, disagree on all counts.
try to avoid text walls.
it always goes this way, you gloss over facts and try to downplay things while the same time everything you argue can apply the same to superman and the only differnce is that I give proof and evidence and you dont... and even with this you try to counter facts with opinions and speculation from communites (they dont know what supplementary canon means and they dont consider toryiamas words). You say its not canon without showing real evidence from toriyama. Your always so hard in finding logic in goku when supermans logic is even worse, again with one time lifting a lot, than one time struggling to lift an oil rig. Yet not giving information that describes why the book was smal when it should have been infinitely tall. Like your such a hypocript that its not getting fun to debate with you. Always glossing and not interacring with my points. Trying to find minor things like the kai over reacting to try (and you fail) to fit your own agenda when its obvious you have no knowledge of DBS. Saying one thing, when it completly negates everything else and then saying something else. We can debate again once you realize this and start to give actual evidence....
well, agree to disagree.
do you watch one piece?
zoro vs sanji?
no data still thats funny
manga sole property in asia? hmm ok thats cool trivia.
who marked the benchmark?
you now change what you initially meant about superman being infinite would carry out in different aspects like he would than need infinite strength in muscles, to support that infinite strength. Those muscles and body durabillity shouldnt be affected by radiation which prove he is not infinite. Infinite strength means nothing when the muscles, heart, and overall body arent strong enought to be infinite.
Again, you glossed over toriyama's approval of him calling it an encyclopedia which means a lot coming from the creator and saying that they did a really good job. Again, this data acts as supplementary canon. Making things canon unitil manga says otherwise.
LOL stop speculating. Thats still a feat in his disposal forever canon in the anime. Wether or not he chooses to destory the universe is up to him which he would probabaly not because hes a good guy. If you were watching the anime you would know that he working on controlling his ki so he doesnt waste energy and use only as needed, thus what UI is. Lol, so basically your only defense is that because the kais were genuinely scared of his strength that makes it not true.Exactly, hes a character, a kai of supreme wisdom and creator of life and understands how the universe works (thats what a kai is).You dont need the narrator at the end of the show to spell out that the universe is ending, thats what informational characters are for.
Plus if toriyama's words arent enough, goku was still gonna destroy things in that universe that were eternal
btw, we know that the universe wouldnt get destroyed by goku and beerus cause goku was only ssjred. since then he became more powerful and threw plenty of punches. universe was fine. the kai felt like it would get destroyed, but he was being a drama queen. hes just a character, not a narraror. point is irrelevant. what else you got?
ummm no. anything made by toei will be discarded by the community. comics are owned by the studios in the usa, but manga are the sole property of the mangka in asia.
if toriyama goes elsewhere, it will still be dragon ball.
if toei does something without toriyama, it is fake. thats the benchmark.
the thing about canon is it isnt subjective. something is canon or it isnt. and every source says the guidebooks are not cannon.
i didnt say superman is infinite. i said his stength is infinite. he does have other weaknesses, but he can lift infinite weight, and punch infinite hard.
this is getting nowhere, i need the quotes and comic book pages information like what i asked for in the past, especially for how the book works, for this to go anyfurther im just gonna ignore until then, or we can even the playing field for supermans sake and say hes not infinite so we can actually break down what they do (when he clearly is not not since having problems with the red sun, dying sometimes, the different types of kryptonite , struggling to do one thing and then not the other times). He is not portrayed as omnipotent.
thats not the entire community consensus.
Dragonball is owned and controlled by Toei animations. Toriyama makes the manga and everything they declare is a spin off is considered not canon. Everything you said about Superman and DC can be said the same with Dragonball and Toei Animations. In the anime, he has more restrictions on what he can do with dragonball super than he does in the manga. Toei Animation or Toriyama has not went out of his way to say that these guides are not canon. In fact, he has went the other way and Toriyama has stated it to be an encyclopedia and supported the staff which speaks a lot coming from the creator.
Plus if thats enough, in the anime he clearly would have wiped away all eternal beings including the eternal spirits who cant die unless revived to earth and killed, and realms that are supposed to exist infinitely like HFIL and heaven. There are things that are infinite in the infinte universe that he was gonna destroy.
this isnt my logic, im just quoting the entire community consensus
superman is owned and controlled by the dc company, and anything they make that they dont declare is a spin off or alternate universe is cannon. the writter usually has substantial, but limited creative control, with dc having final approval.
dragon ball has and always will be the sole work of toriyama. he says what dragon ball is.
when did toriyama approve the guidebooks? please stop making stuff up or phrase it like an opinion.
and again according to your logic all except the original one wouldnt be considered canon.
*DC fans cant pick one canon superman to fight goku
thats the thing with superman there are many different forms of him and most DC cant pick one.
where did toriyama approve it?
can you read he said it was an encyclopedia and he praised the work he confrmed that it is. This makes it supplementary canon.
the anime was made with toriyama. it is canon cause he said it is. he has made no approval, and played no hand in the creation of those guidebooks. therefore it is not canon. it has nothing to do with toriyama.
i am not the only one who considers it noncannon, the entire dragon ball community does too.
superman has been rewritten many times, the version i am using is amongst the weakest as post "crisis" he became stronger, and pre1986 he destroyed solar systems by sneezing.
LOL ok just gloss over my arguement again. I cant tell if your actually reading my stuff. But i never said anything about the weight. I asked about the height of the book. It should be growing at a never ending rate if it was infinite. The way your logic goes is that the book is only heavy which im sure it is but not entirely infinite because of the height of the book. Again, link me info about how kryptonite works because you havent rebuttled that it works as a magicspell to cancel out supermans "infiniteness". And also link me a page or quote from word of mouth of someone. saying that he is infinte and also show me a quote or a page that describes how the book works. Again, if superman was infinite, than he would never need to struggle against ANYBODY. He would never die. He shouldnt have to stuggle as much as he did to pick up the book. A red sun shouldnt affect him. He shouldnt stuggle lifting the oilrig. He should never have offdays. But all of this is clearly not true...
Also toriyama hasnt done anything that completly ends the universe being infinite fact. If you read the guidebook and the manga and anime that fact hasnt been changed to fit toriymas new plot so as it stands that fact in the guidebook remains intact. Thats why there arent any forums debating this info as supposed to other things. Dont you know wikipedia isnt always a reliable source?
Aside from that, lets go logic based (eventhough this doesnt apply to toriyamas story, but thats all you have left at this point) can you link me website or quote of all the " many experts" who say that the universe isnt infinite?
Dragonball guidebooks are canon in a way that they offer supplement real canon information to the canon anime/manga which the show is based off on the manga. Some people would say that its not because some of the data is a little off, but thats like saying the anime is not canon because the it sometimes deviates from the manga. Both are well considered canon. Toriyama has oficially stated in an interview that its "a huge dragonball encyclodopedia" and confirms the work his team and their work by saying "they really did a good job" which coming from the creator means a lot. All this points that the creator confirms the data enough to call if an "encyclopedia" and prasing the work his team made. Saying that the guides arent canon means that the anime isnt canon which is already impossible. "Those are not the words of the creator". With that same logic, all of supermans comics would be noncanon because he has many different authors that change him all the time and powerscale him differently all the time. Since it deviates from the origninal creator, most of the supermans feats would be considered noncanon according to your logic. If theres any discrepencies it would be more on supermans side than goku on establised data. At least DB has an encyclopdia confirmed by the author.
idk how kryptonite works, or how that book works. but the book was said to have infinite pages, and it looked like a struggle to lift it, so the pages werent weightless. therefore the book had infinite weight.
if something is infinitely heavy, can someone without infinite strength physically lift without tricks? no.
superman lifted it.
superman has infinite strength.
if something is illogical, its usually worth a second look.
in other words, those are not the words of the creator, just the company that makes money of him. he had no part in all except dragon ball volume f and its sequel.
dragonball guidebooks are not cannon according to the dragon ball universe wiki and just about every forum.
with that do you concede?
regarding infinites. our universe is ever growing, does that mean you believe our universe is infinite?
*lift an oil rig
kryptonite sounds more like just simple weakness to superman for not being infinite. Its described as his achilles heel not the counterspell to his infinte spell. If kryptonite had the strength to end his "infinteness" that would be better be it as goku has the strength of physically destroying infinitness.
Anyways, there are somethings of the infinite book that arent explained like why is the book small if it is infinite. It should have been tall at an never ending rate but im not gonna be super picky on that.
Plus, as if struggling to lift infinity is as stong as destroying infinity, spirits, demons, gods, and other realms.
You cant argue something that Toriyama has stated as fact in his universe/ story. What real experts say on this world doesnt not mean anything at all to Toriyamas anime Dragonball. Your arguement is really bad. Theres no way to change what the creator has stated to be true in his guidebook about HIS story. It doesnt have to make sense, its true and canon. Theres no way to say otherwise unless your toriyama himself.
I didnt state that kryptonite is infintely stronger as a fact, I asked it. It was a rhetorical question.
Your comparison is not a good one because kryptonite and superman arent magicspells that are infinite. Fire ball is a one use spell and thats it and can be blocked with another spell that doesnt have to be a conterspell like a water one. Enough with that weird analogy. From what i know there arent clear theories on how kryptonite works that is clearly stated but people speculate that it causes radiation poison which makes his skin turn green. None of this screams counterspell. Better yet, if superman was infinite he wouldnt have another weakness from a red sun or have ever died. He wouldnt have to ever struggle ever especially when lifting the book. In one other comic he is shown.struggling to lift and oil which is he was truely infinite wouldnt happen. He wouldnt have ever died by batman. Can you send me a quote or a comic book page where he is described as being infinite by word of mouth in someone or in an official guide and something that is not just assumed. Also, show me a conistent quote in the comics that describe kryptonite being a counterspell that eventhough he is infinite, the magic of it makes super man not infinite. Becsuse radiation hurting someone that is supposedely infinite doesnt add up especially since i dont remeber any quotes of people explicitly saying he is infinite for being able to lift the book
our universe is expanding. does that mean our universe is infinite? if you say yes, do you acknowledge you are going against nearly every expert on the planet?
ok with fight to the death but when did their families come into it? are you making up rules on the fly? can i do it to?
"kryptonite is more infinite than superman"
what? that doesn't make sense. kryptonite isn't displaying a feat of strength. it's like asking if a counterspell is more powerful then a fireball. kryptonite is like superman's counterspell, no matter the strength, negate it.... but it doesn't actually do anything on its own, its offensive power is zero, not infinite.
before you start nitpicking, when i said space in the graph example i meant like the universe cosmic space
again were assuming that this match is to the death and both people are fighting for their lives and their famalies. If not than both heros wouldnt even fight each other in the first place or they wouldnt spar in full strength.
AGAIN you glossed over the fact that superman isnt infinite because supermam shouldnt be affected by kryptonite and nobody should technically beat him especially batman. Is kryptonite more infinite that superman? So please do yourself a favor and even out the plainfield by saying that both arent infinite.
ok your not grasping it." if something is endless, it has no ends/borders at which it grows." Again your desperately trying to find logic in anime, but ill play along still and your logic doesnt even make sense. Its called sectors/quadrant because its like a graph in math. The y axis goes up and down infinetly (dont you even dare say that its not infinite because a infinete shouldnt " constantly grow") and the x axis that goes infinetely left and right making 4 quadrant. Either way the graph with the arrows at the end signify infinity. Now picture that graph, but its now space. You picture it still right? Now picture that each of quadrant 1, 2, 3, and 4 belong to a person called a kai. (and again im lowballing goku because in the official guide which you ignore says its 4 universes but lets just say 1). Plus toriyama already said in his guide which again you chose to ignore that it expands "ENDLESSLY". Its not up to you wether or not toriyama's dragonball universe is infinite or not. If he wants it to be which he has in his guidebook than it simply is? Logic or not, he said it, and its a fact nothing to be disputed against but yet you still cling on to it. Just because you dont understanding it doesnt negate toriyamas words doesnt make the creator of dragonball's words, story, and plots not canon anymore.
c. correction. zamasu, not zeno
A. you were not joking. saying my point is weak, "what else you got" was a repeated catchphrase throughout our debate. you are being dishonest.
B. if something is endless, it has no ends/borders at which it grows. your definition of infinite is acceptable, something that is growing does not fit into that definition. i dont understand your confusion here.
C. zeno was destroying a world and endangering many people. superman is a good guy who happens to be strong. since goku isnt trying to save anyone from superman, why would he want an easy win? do you even know goku?!?
D. no finite level, no matter how strong, comes even close to infinity. the gap between goku and superman in a fair 1 v 1 will always be infinitly in favor of superman.
A. Out of all the things i said that was the only thing you picked up on which was im winning joke that doesnt mean anything in the actual arguement
B. Infinite: "Limitless and Endless" meaning something keeps on growing.Search it up. Your not understanding what the word infinite means
C.You ignored my obvious arguements that goku has pulled the kryptonitr card when he had the oppurtunity to do the same to zamuse. He called zeno (his kryptonite) to kill him because zamuse was too strong. He became the universe and rather than heading him on, goku took the chance to call zeno. So your arguement where he would never use someones weakness to fight is clearly debunked. Thats why i ignored it because he literally has done the equivialent
D. I hope you can see atleast that goku cant just be washed out by superman.
its easy to be the winner when you pretend to also be the judge. unfortunately neither your opponent not the audience agree. your unilateral declaration that you won and insistence to move on is your weakness. also i dont think you understand infinity properly. if goku is still getting stronger, he is not infinite.
also, goku endangers the lives of everyone in order to let his opponents power up to full or to start fights with stronger people... why would he use kryptonite. you accused me of skipping this subject, i pointed out where i addressed it, and you still ignored my argument.
this was fun, but its getting past the point a fictional fight deserves. cheers :)
to give superman a chance lets just say both of them arent infinite. Superman because kryptonite and batman contradicts this and goku because... people like jiren which are higer than god of destruction level, exist and because people of that nature of stupidly strong exist in the dragonball universe
dont bring up the infinite arguement thing again because im really trying to low ball goku, by saying that he could have destroyed 1 universe , when the guide says 4 universes/realms( plus the mortal one, and the demon one which technically makes it 6) . And by saying that goku wont pull the instant transmission card to transport superman to a place full of kryptonite if it meant getting rid of a threat like how he did when he sent cell to self destruct on king kais place.
you would have to be very ignorant to think superman would be able to fight hand to hand combat with goku. And plus he does have light speed ffs he has god ki. If you dont believe search up a vid. and like i said he is very durable withstanding universal/infinite breaking punches and dishing them back. His arms dont even bend showing a sign that his muscles are capable to stand it, beerus straight arm into gokus straight arm only in his red form. Dont forget his blue form, blue with kio ken, and ultra instinct ( which is similar to angel level of strength). All angels know ultra instinct and this is something that gods of destructions have trouble learning.
let me spell it out for you
"how about you list some things goku has done that you feel superman cannot?"
posses the advance martial arts skills that require many years to learn and energy control that only gods of universal destructuon level can teach you. Not only being influenced by one angel which is already a serendipity blessing but by the influnce and knowledge of a second angel.
Btw angels are so overpowered that there is a law by the omni king and grand preiest that forbids them to actually fight with mortal affairs. To describe some of the feats they have, whis can turn back time and move planets around without breaking a sweat. Goku is learning fighting techniques from these people.
im feeling like im winning this one to be honest
first of all your comments didnt get sent until i had to refresh. your defense is getting very weak. That is very valid feat. What can goku do? He is very very good at combat because of his advance martial arts knowlege. and than i listed the teachers as evidence to how good his teachings were. Are YOU not reading my comments? I cant find the comment about vegeta can you repeat what you said about vegeta. Also i dont understand what you mean about "both being strong....".
Also for more info Whis is the master who taught beerus.
btw, still waiting on your response regarding feminazis.
i didnt gloss over krypronite. i specifically mentioned it in my comment about vegeta. are you reading my responses?
and goku knows several martial arts. how much do you know about superman?
i asked you what goku can do and you made a long list of teachers. what can goku do?
also, both being strong doesnt mean they are equally strong. everyone in dragon ball is very strong. some are just stronger.
that fact is crazy because angels are tied by their one universe, however goku has been lucky enought to have encountered a rougue angel
for more evidence
hes been training under master roshi, king kamek, king kai, the yardrats, beerus, whis(an angel who is above everyone in that universe), and in the recent manga, hes been learning from another angel i think his name is merno, meaning he is the only mortal in the entire history of all zeno universes to be trained by 2 angels
Lol you shouldnt of mentioned combat. You want to know something superman doesnt know that goku does. How to actually fight with technique. Brute strength isnt gonna be the deciding factor, both have brute strength (goku more than superman). How about actually having the physical intelligence of fightinh and attacking with skill. Goku has learned all kinds of martial arts from the best of universe, so in hand to hand combat, superman wont stand a chance. Plus goku is very durable also woth being able to tank force enough to destroy an infinite universe many times from beerus and dishing it back.
Im being fair to be honest by saying no one is infinite strength because im genuinly lowballing goku. Plus you glossed over the fact that all of sudden the infinite superman isnt so infinite anymore when kryptonite is next to him. Like is kryptonite infitely strong too?? In fact you accidently gave goku more credit when you said that universe is supposed to be there infinitely. It can be interpreted that way. And with toriyama's second quote of it also being "endless". Not only was goku going to destroy something that expands endlessly/infinetly, he was also going to destroy something that was supposed to be infinitly present.
and i keep hearing about a post "crisis" power up. and the fact that he got powered down after 1986... this overpowered superman apparently is the weakest version of superman.... so wow.
anyway, back to you actually making an argument about goku...?
and whats irrelevant about 2015? dragon ball stopped at 2018. how frequent do you expect quality updates? even scholarly sources are considered exceptional within 5 years. i think your being more defensive then logical.
how about you list some things goku has done that you feel superman cannot?
instant transmission doesnt help your punching speed. its useful in combat, but not a replacement for raw speed. you seem to be quick to dismiss and eager to move on. are you sure you dont just want to make a blog instead of debate.
you even admitted gokus strength wasnt actually infinite (as is shown by him still getting stronger) but was simply felt across space. you also failed to conclude your infinite universe argument, how can one find the strongest warrior in an infinite universe? there will always be infinite more candidates!
their explanation accounted for any future power gains. goku will always get stronger, therefore he will never be infinitely strong. therefore he loses.
that video was from 2015, death battle is so irrelevant to this, it didnt accurately portray his feats. Anywayss...
ive clearly debunked the brute strength part, it wasnt even me it was toriyamas literal episodes and guide books that have. Your words agaisnt his.
Goku doesnt need to travel speed of light when he can instant transmition to the exact place he wants. You know what instant means right, to treavel the speed of sound to get from point A to B. You need to travel all that distance. For goku, he skips the line from A to B and appears to B instantly. Beerus has even praised goku for his speed and made fun of whis ( the fastest person in universe 7 because he is an angel) for not being able to travel as fast as goku. What else has he done?
goku still has not matched superman's literal infinite brute strength
lets talk about speed.
super man heard a bell and returned back to earth from many light years away within minutes.
not only was he able to travel well beyond the speed of light, but he was able to hear sound faster then sound could travel...
and i mean it say something else that superman has done.
your really are trying to gloss over the facts. This guide book happend in the buu arc. The guidebook still matches with DBS. Your not keeping up to date with dragonball because you would now that more info on how universes work in dragon ball super Toriyama did not change his mind at all. He included more plot thats all. Everything still works its just that now there different realms that beerus and whis are in charged of. Also, the 2nd quote reinfoves that the universes are endless and vast. Both guides and super are canon. Just because you dont want it to be and becauss you dont understand it doesnt make it canon. Its his story, if he says that it is endless and expansive than it is. Again yor trying to make logic in things that dont have logic. Your obviously in denial and dont know what your saying for you to think that its not canon. Lets move on, what else has superman done?
i didnt say anything about the age of the book, or how fast it grows. i said it has infinite pages. right now. and unless the pages weight literally nothing, that book has an infinite weight. meaning you would need infinite strength to lift it.
if you dont want to watch the death battle video, i can just watch it and repeat facts to you, but its quite entertaining. the 2nd one makes better arguments. i was on team goku before watching it, and they grossly underestimate gokus power... but their explanation of superman was just too much for me. watch the video. ill link in a bit.
superman is weak to a specific rock, but if that rock isnt there, he can lift something with infinite weight. which requires infinite strength. there are ways to defeat him. he isnt infinitely smart or infinitely seeing. but nobody is beating him in arm wrestling. he is infinitely strong, and i think infinitely tough... without the rock.
so i think vegeta could beat him, but goku would definitely lose. superman isnt killing his family, so.... no goku isnt using kryptonite. he wants a good fight! and he'll get it.
growing forever doesnt mean is forever now. given an infinite amount of time it may eventually become infinitely large, but that will never happen because that is an infinite amount of time away. at the moment it is finite, but growing.
the guidebook seems to be published before dbs, it has no mention of other universes, or death gods, angels, etc. either dbs is non canon, or toriyama changed his mind on this info.
existing infinetely means it has always existed, will always exist. it doesnt mean it is infinitely large.
If you say superman is infinite strength than kryptonite shouldnt affect him.
For the age of the book, that matters because when something grows infinetly, it means theres no cap to what number the book will weigh but it will weigh more than the last second. It wouldnt make sense for a book to start weighing less than it did before when new pages are being added from future books at a constant rate. The book began long before supermans " infinite strength" existed. Because of this, it would have more weight than superman would be able to carry when his initial "infinite strength" began when he landed on earth.
For the jiren thing, destroying infinity doenst mean you have infinite strength no one has infinite strength, goku just has a lot a lot of strength to be able to destroy infinity. Two different concepts. For example, Superman cant be infinite when Batman can beat him. Is superman infinite when theres kryptonite near him? Anyways is there anything else that superman can do?
thats guide book number 7
i cant copy and paste the full quotes used but basically in the daizenshoo #7 it says that " the kami in the heavenly realm and the kaiou supervise the galaxies that exist infinitely in all the galaxies the sections known as the east west south and north galaxies are denominations that came into use through there duty" ( It also discusses how the sectors are actually a universe of its own but to lowball goku lets pretend its just one galaxy) Theres no way to dispute this especially when stated in the guide number 7.
" The ENDLESS , EXPANSIVE space wrapped around every celestial body that exists in the living world. along with the demon realm"
Infinite means never ending meaning there is no cap to it. The universe constantly expanding means that space between planets and solar systems are conatantly spacing apart this also means that the universe is constantly growing for ever. There is no cap or limit.
if a universe is expanding, it is not infinite.
also im not sure if the dbz universe is expanding, it however is still clearly limited, being made up of 4 limited king kai regions. there are also other universes beyond it, and a void in between. nothing about this sounds infinite.
also, what does the age of the book have to do with its weight? i don't really understand.
if goku was infinite strength in his fight with beerus, does that mean jiren is stronger then infinity?
some text was accidently deleted so sentences dont flow well
also in the vid, you can see the waves reach the kais which many kais like king kai live in the after life in a another realm different from thr living. Goku almost destroyed another realm that is also infinite and all the spirits. Arguing that this does not mean goku can destroy inifinite because it doesnt make sence/ trying to find logic in it is not good. Your trying to find logic in things that arent supposed to have it. Its like me asking flash isnt running at light speed because he can talk while running. Or since the book existed way before superman did, the books infinite would be way bigger than superman's infinite because it had way more time to be more infinite. If he lifted the book than its not infinite. These things dont have logic to them. Goku can destroy two realms (the livings and the spirits) and there infinites thats all there is to it.
the universe is infinite and is always expanding at a constant rate thus like you said "no limit at all". The universe is infinite which is a fact. Goku being able to destroy the entire infinite universe with his powers. despite it infintly growing demonstrates just how powerful his strength is at his weak red form. In the video, they didnt say part of the universe or a section. They said the entire universe. Thats just how strong goku is theres no way around that especially when actually seeing him almost doing it. This demonstrates that in his weak red form, he can destroy infinite. Infininite is broken but goku is even more broken only in his red form. what else can superman do?
destroying universe or dimention =/= infinity. the universe would have a finite limit, or no limit at all.
he can go red, blue, or whatever multiple of his power, multiplying or adding any non infinite number, no matter how large, will never reach infinity. infinity is broken.
He was fighting at his red form which is way weaker than his blue form. And goku now can multiply his blue form by 20 with kio ken ( i think its how its spelled). Keep in mind the universe almost got destroyed from only a few punches exchanged.
He lifted infinite which is cool. In DBS when goku barely got his god ki. Beerus and Goku almost destroyed the fabric of there entire universe but was going to be stopped because beerus isnt allowed to destroy his entire universe. So in the beginning of DBS, he could destroy infinite. By now with all these extra buffs, he could do way more damage. All the screwattack videos on this topic are outdated by now btw.
superman is insane when you dive into the comicbook lore. + hes been rewritten a ton of times.
i was on team goku before watching their analysis.
i cannot copy paste on the app but may i recommend 2 YouTube videos on. they are both from deathbattle. they did a rematch after goku red, second one really drove the point home.
not a comic book fan so 2nd hand info but i believe superman lifted a book with infinite pages. no matter how light each page that makes the book infinite heavy and superman infinitely strong. goku is no and never will be infinite.
he also lifted the physical embodiment of eternity.
once again, a man who breaks all limits cannot beat a man without limits.
maybe we should compare feats
I wouldnt consider using someones weakness against an enemy during a fight underhanded, espscially during a fight to the death where he wants you dead. Which is what we are assuming the scneario is. Goku called zeno from the button he got. Zeno is basically everyones kryptonite in DBS. Zeno earased the entire universe in that timeline to kill zamuse. Goku called him because he felt really bad for trunks and had to defeat Zamusu whatever way he could. Goku has shown to do many things that he wouldnt otherwise ever do if it werent for him being pushed/threaten. Ex: Teaming with vegeta, fusing with him, snitching on zamusu, working with frieza, using the evil containment wave (which is basically a quick GG). The only time he lets people fight on the full power would be if it wasnt seriously life threatning.For example, when he healed cell, he knew that gohan was gonna win either way. the whole arc was basically for gohan. Goku isnt afraid to pull the kryptonie card. He has done it already
i don't remember him being particularly underhanded. not sure about zamasu, but certainly not with the others. cell he even gave a sensu bean so his fight with his own son "would be fair."
it really depends on how threatened he feels. Like when he was fighting beerus, jiren, or cell or even zamusu. For zamuse he even called zeno which is basically his kryptonite because he had to. He isnt afraid to pull the kryptonite card if he has to.
only using kryptonite. do you think goku would stoop so low? or perfer to beat him at his full potential?
Superman isnt invincible btw... Batman can beat him.
"in a battle between a man who breaks all limits, and one with no limits at all... only one has a limit to give" - Death Battle
this should be good