The debate "The Catholic church ignores Jesus's teachings." was started by
December 16, 2015, 8:26 pm.
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What meaning does the 100th repetition add to the prayer? Unless there is a meaning behind repeating it that many times it is, by definition, meaningless repetition.
you have yet to find any meaning in repeating hail Mary. all of your reasons can easily be covered by using other prayers. if there is no meaning to the repetition then it is meaningless. and the Bible is clear about that.
Jesus said "this is how to pray" and then spoke the our father.
and yes, we don't need to repeat the same prayer, but we can as long as we are not saying it meaninglessly
no. you have said that more prayers is a good thing, which I also have pointed out isn't necessarily true. you haven't provided a single reason why you should repeat the same prayer over and over. Jesus said alot of things. you don't need to repeat the same one 100 times to keep praying.
well, as I said before repeating prayers that mary, and jesus said is good because they said it.
Jesus repeated himself to peter after the he rose from the dead when he asked "do you love me" 3 times. the purpose for prayer is to become closer to God, so more prayers brings you closer and closer.
I have now said how repeating prayers is good, so it's not meaningless.
Except that it explicitly was. If there is no reason to repeat the same prayer 100 times, that is, by definition, meaningless repetition. Jesus didn't say "except when saying hail Marys don't use meaningless repetition", he said not to use it at all. Unless you can demonstrate a meaning for the repetition, it is meaningless.
I don't need to prove you have to repeat tourself, all I have to prove is that repitition was not denouced by jesus.
if there is a specific reason for the repetition. you have yet to provide a reason someone should repeat hail marry over and over again that couldn't easily be accomplished by some other prayer that would eliminate repetition.
because Jesus repeated himself.
is meaningful repitition posible to you?
no one is saying praying more is wrong. how many times can I say that? I'm saying that the repetition is unnecessary. you could pray and say anything. repeating yourself 100 times is meaningless repetition and is specifically forbidden by the Bible.
why isn't it. why is praying more wrong?
why is it good to say it over and over? there are lots of things said by lots of holy people. the Bible said not to do that. it said priests should be married. it says alot of things the Catholic church chose not to follow.
you don't have to do a repitition, but let's take the hail mary. the hail Mary Is from words Gabriel spoke and Elizabeth spoke.
the our father is from Jesus himself.
it's good to say what those holy people said, but not meaninglessly.
and repeating hail Mary over and over again is meaningless. you haven't provided a single reason to do it. if you want to keep praying then keep praying. you don't have to repeat yourself 100 times. provide any reason that it must be a repetition.
again scripture does not say no repetition, it says no meaningless repitition.
prayers go on at masses. the priest says the same thing each mass.
except the Bible doesn't say "don't go to repetitive masses". it does say to not use meaningless repetition. saying 100 hail marys is meaningless repetition. the Bible doesn't say to not pray alot either. if you want to pray 8 hours a day the scripture has no problem with that. but it specifically says no repetition.
the idea that if one is good 2 must be better is rediculous. one wife is good, are 2 better? 1 God is good, are 2 better? the scriptures are pretty clear on those ones too.
when we repeat the prayer we think
1 prayer is good so 2 prayers is better.
of course if I'm praying a meaningless prayer it doesn't count.
the part you said about annoying God until he does what we want is flawed. God can't do what we want. that is not why we pray. many people think that the purpose of prayer is to ask God for stuff we want. prayer should be to thank God, ask him what he wants, or ask him if what you want is on his will. prayers like the rosary, is too ask God to help us with our lives.
also prayer is a time between the person praying and God. the more prayers you say, the more time with God. the more time with God the better of you are.
by your logic of more prayers being bad, then going to 1 mass is better then going to thousands in a lifetime.
as anyone with any understanding of logic will tell you, your idea is wrong.
no. when you repeat the same prayer over and over it is meaningless repetition. do you think that God couldn't hear you the first time? did God decide not to answer you after the first one and you are going to annoy him into doing what you want? if not then it is meaningless repetition.
the bible says MEANINGLESS repetition.
1 meaningful prayer is good, so 100 meaningful prayers are a lot of good.
1 meaningless prayer is bad, so 100 meaningless prayers are worse.
follow my logic?
he quoted the Bible where it says to not use repetitive prayers as the gentiles do. that means that 100 prayers are not better. they are worse. they are directly against the Bible's teachings. but the Catholic church ignores the Bible where they find it convenient.
for Mary, we don't ask her to convince God of anything, we ask her to pray for us, and the more people praying for us, the better.
if you say 100 prayers are worthless, then so is 1 prayer.
I say 1 prayer is good and 100 prayers is way better then 1 right?
There is a big difference between me praying for someone who is ill and asking Mary to have a word with God and convince him to help. Praying for someone is not mediating for them, it is expressing your wish to help them. Asking Mary for help is asking her to convince God to do what you want. Why would you think she has the power to do that?
Your first argument is self defeating since it is the church defending ignoring Jesus words. Saying "they said it's OK" doesn't change the fact that Jesus explicitly says not to.
Why do you need to say 100 hail Marys? Does God not hear the first time? Even if each repetition is supposed to be heartfelt, it is still pointless repetition.
As to priests being supposed to be married, I am not saying they should be disqualified if they are not married, Jesus did. Read the actual text, I quoted it directly for a reason. Even if we didn't take it so far as to force priests to be married, where in that text does it encourage forbidding priests from marrying and forcing them to be celibate? The church is still guilty of ignoring Jesus wishes and making a rule that is not supported by scripture.
I'm sorry, but you can't say what they "really meant", because he unambiguously states what you're to do and not to do.
all Christians are called to "mediate" the grace of Christ to one another: for example, through prayer for one another, and through witnessing to the Gospel in word and deed. Our role as mediators, however, is entirely dependent upon the grace of Christ, the unique and supreme Mediator, and is intended to lead people closer to him. The same is true for Mary, who by her unique cooperation in her Son's saving work, by her example of faithful discipleship, and by her prayers, conveys the saving grace of Christ to all her children. She mediates grace in these ways to all of humanity
the Greek word used for "one" that St. Paul used here in I Timothy 2:5-6 in the phrase "one mediator" is not monos, which would mean "sole," but eis, which can mean "one" in the sense of "principal," or "first in a series." Jesus is the principal Mediator who enables many other sub-mediators to transmit the grace of God to others. Again, faithful Christians act as sub-mediators in Christ when they pray for their neighbors, share the Gospel with the lost, and serve the suffering and the oppressed. The merciful love of Christ thereby passes from Jesus Christ through his faithful disciples to those in need.
you will see once reading this page what Jesus ment, and how it's ok to call people father.
some catholics when praying the rosary do use meaningless repetition. that is not how the rosary is ment to be said. every hail Mary is supposed to be a new prayer and prayed with reverence, and not said just to say it. so when one is praying a prayer but they don't care what their saying, it is wrong.
Jesus himself gave us the our father, and told us to use that.
that last one it seems as if your saying that because a priest can't run a house he does not know how to run a church. you don't need to be a ruler of a household to run a church, or anything.
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
Priests have assumed Father as a title.
And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
This is exactly what is done when reciting hail Marys with the rosary.
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Catholics ask Mary to intercede on their behalf.
While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."
Again, the Catholic Church praises and exalts Mary.
A bishop, then, must be above reproach,the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)
The Catholic Church banks clergy from marriage, which should disqualify them from running the church.
There are more, but I will let you respond to these before I continue.