The Christian god does not give us free will because he's all knowing and created

June 9, 2019, 8:46 am

Agree16 Disagree9

64%
36%

The debate "The Christian god does not give us free will because he's all knowing and created" was started by Potatochiper on June 9, 2019, 8:46 am. 16 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 9 people are on the disagree side. People are starting to choose their side. It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.

Potatochiper posted 4 arguments, Nemiroff posted 1 argument, JDAWG9693 posted 1 argument to the agreers part.


JDAWG9693, Potatochiper, sssk, ShiroSpeaks, bernie, MADHURA and 10 visitors agree.
Rodolfo, mtbtheboss and 7 visitors disagree.

JDAWG9693
replied to...

Except that omnipotence is logically impossible, omniscience can't accompany freewill, and either he is subject to an objective morality, or we are subject to his subjective morality, making his omnibenevolence pointless because whatever he does will be called "good"

2 months, 1 week ago
Potatochiper
replied to...

Never thought of it like that before good point

2 months, 1 week ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

yes, and even if the Christian God gave his pure word, we still must contend with the human imperfect understanding of his word as well as the Christian dark ages during which his word could have been corrupted.

but if we do take the Christian theology at face value, not only do we not have free will, God doesnt have free will either. he is all knowing, thus knows all options he has at any given moment. he is all powerful, thus can carry out any of the option before him. and he is all good/just/right and will only ever pick the most good/just/right option. he has no choice either. he may as well be a force nature rather then a conscious entity.

2 months, 2 weeks ago
Potatochiper
replied to...

Well when I talk about the "Christian god" I'm referring to the god they speak of in the bible and saying that if that's the god he is there is no free will

2 months, 2 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

you are assuming the bible is the pure word of God and not (at best) an imperfect translation, or (at worst) a completely corrupted text as it has been in the human hands for several millenia, including the Christian dark ages full of corrupt clergy and kings.

so I am unsure if either the stories of the divine plan or the promise of free will found in the bible are at all accurate or what their source is. if an all powerful God wanted to give us a guide it wouldn't be a book that is easy to edit and closed to most people for most of Christian history. he would implant it into our minds (our conscience) to provide an incorruptible record of what is good. the fact that people ignore their conscience is proof of free will in this theology.

2 months, 2 weeks ago
Potatochiper
replied to...

Also why lie and tell people you do have free will

2 months, 2 weeks ago
Potatochiper
replied to...

Best answer I could think of for this argument as wel but that's just a guess

2 months, 2 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

could be.
a divine plan is incompatible with free will.

2 months, 2 weeks ago

well it is all part of his great plan

2 months, 2 weeks ago
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