The debate "The Christian God is not a very good character" was started by
April 4, 2016, 8:27 am.
16 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 20 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
Pugsly posted 10 arguments, project_mayhem posted 4 arguments to the agreers part.
Alex posted 14 arguments to the disagreers part.
Pugsly, RyanWakefield, project_mayhem, JanavanRooyen, cancer_wins, sickboyblonde, Jason9374, openparachute and 8 visitors agree.
burntoast2000, ProudAmerican888, Tebogo_tsweu, Alex, idonteatthat, Anandapadmanabhan, oscar90000, Thomas_Jefferson, ElisaXO, itsme, codyray16, redeemed and 8 visitors disagree.
In less you lived for over 100,000 years I don't think you'll see a fish be come a lizard for
One it would have to have a reason to come up on land.
Second the fish over many generations of that group of fish that come out of the water. Which is very dangerous for fish so only the ones that survive this they will change.
Three fish that would do this would be come a new species and scientist would have to look at it before they could say it's a lizard that was a fish 100,000 years ago.
Actually, on further thought, I'm curious how you combine the big bang with God creating species. Did God create a bunch of species at a time and then, as they evolved within species, make new species very similar but slightly different? Did he create fish, then land based lizards, then the dinosaurs, then the mammals? I'm not saying this mockingly, I really am curious how you combine the big bang without accepting evolution into different species. Without that, how did we get from dinosaurs to where we are today?
And you base this expertise on what?
as for evolution I've come to accept evolution within species. a giraffe growing a longer neck, sure. a fish turning into a lizard? nope.
I do think punishing bad souls is rational. so is rewarding good, and even ok souls. with God even making some slightly bad souls good in purgatory.
Yeah I think it makes more sense than a man I can't see, feel, hear, or have proof for made me and ever thing else.
You accept evolution right? So you believe as soon as we evolved from primates, God decided to give human souls that could potentially spend eternity being tortured? After 13 billion years creating galaxies and the complexity of each cosmo event; he creates a torture chamber for humans that evolved on a tiny planet revolving around an average star. You thinks thats rational?
You at least must understand how some people do not believe in a heaven or hell.
stealing stuff doesn't make you bad always. you could repent, or you could have been justified in stealing. or God could have mercy and not send you to hell.
Well, he kind of has. You remember the native Americans were the Christians came in and force everyone to convert.
Bad people deserve to be put in the lake of firer for ever. Even if they only stole stuff.
should he change his plan and punish the good instead?
God killed bad people and sent them to hell. I call that justice, bad people getting punished. God sent the good to heaven. I also call that justice, rewarding the good.
You know how God killed over a billion people. You know all the people that needed their father to support the whole family. Then, the family goes into welfare and more. Let's say the step dad beats the shit out of the kids what then. Is he still a good person. God is not a good person because he knew what would happen because he knows all.
who needs a new plan? God? God is unchanging and already has a perfect plan in place. take in mind if someone doesn't follow the plan, that's the abuse I'd human free will, not following God's plan.
"but this one has gone on for too long " Yes I agree. Thousands of years too long.
Ok so you dont believe only Christians go to heaven. Majority of Christians would disagree. But ok. Thats your own peronal belief. Fair enough.
Can we at least agree he needs a new plan?
well my phones at 6% so I should go to sleep now. haha
I said this earlier "the people that don't know God at all can go to heaven if they live a good life. even a prodestant or hew living in america who has heard of God can go to heaven if they live a good life. atheists who have never heard of God, or who have been raised misled into disbelieving God can go to heaven.
Jesus is a big key in this as he made sure his followers went to all the corners of the earth."
I'll add- starving people in Africa who believe on another god and don't know God can go to heaven if they lead a good life.
Consider this, if God exists, then he has the ability to prevent death, then by human standards any death not prevented God is responsible for. Therefore, it does not matter if the death is commanded or not, He is responsible.
Yet Christianity claims there is a life after death, and about every religion has a justification for the world being flawed, and in the end should God exist an afterlife is the goal of living. Therefore continued existence continues suffering, and should be ended at the pinnacle of learning and education... then again, suffering cannot be limited without showing favoritisms and interfering with free will so it must be limited but without interference presence can't be made. A difficult issue. And if there is an afterlife, then dying isn't so bad.
Christianity did rise from Judaism, and is is recognized that when God said one thing, the Jews often do another, made laws, worshipped other gods, and impersonated gods. The old testament provides much of the context with this, and believing that the church that collected these books is infallible, or that it was the law that Christ refers to, isn't necessarily the best policy. And should God exist, and someone else claim to be hearing different gods, are they merely lying or unknowingly acting for something they also don't understand.
Most of the "God is evil" content comes from the belief that he doesn't exist, cross referenced with verses that should he exist, he did. If God exists, he has the highest authority because he has power, simple enough. People believe he is good by the idea that in his absence there is chaos and evil, but I would argue that power is enough. What law of good could judge a God other than his own, and if God were unable to, morally or otherwise, do with his creation as he saw fit, then he wouldn't be God.
It's damned if he can, damned if he can't. Miracles don't exist, because you can't prove them, but proving disproves because we understand, but if we don't understand now we eventually will. If there is no definite good, only relative and arbitrary from viewpoints. it is impossible to say anything is good, only that it is. Then, anything that can change what is either good or a tyrant, depending on how much the viewer decide is owed to him.
I honestly hate these conversations, but this one has gone on for too long.
So he creates every human? Even the ones with birth defects and bone cancer? To be fair, creating all those Asians a year must be exhausting; so mistakes are bound to happen. But does he even know the chances of those asians believing in a different god and will go hell? Somebody should tell him. Not to mention creating kids into starvation with a different religions and who will most likely experience hell.
Either this being is evil, not real, or needs a new plan. Because this isnt working.
No dick in vigina no kids! So, I do bring in life.
you didn't bring your kids into the world, God did. he is the creator of every single conception and life. only he can take away life.
No, it's not. It's not our place to decide for God, unless we kill out of self defense.
Oh so it's because I didn't bring them into this world right? If so why can't I just kill all my kids and still be a good person. God did it and this is the same concept right.
if not you can't judge and have the ability to kill. only the auther of life and death can take life away and give life.
are you God?
Okay, why can't I go and kill people and still be good. I mean I'm sending them to heaven.
the people that don't know God at all can go to heaven if they live a good life. even a prodestant or hew living in america who has heard of God can go to heaven if they live a good life. atheists who have never heard of God, or who have been raised misled into disbelieving God can go to heaven.
Jesus is a big key in this as he made sure his followers went to all the corners of the earth.
Perception is everything.
So, it's okay when he kills because he can take them to heaven. What about the people that didn't know about him at all. They didn't even know he existed.
this was before jesus came and taught peace and loving your enimies.
if you can imagine God back then had people turning on him and making false gods. God didn't want to let these people make others disbelieve. so the law was made by man to kill those who sought to lead them away from God.
God killed yes. but that doesn't make him bad. he is all just and kills those who are bad, and if if a good person gets killed he takes them to eternal happiness. as we should know life on earth is nothing compared to eternity of heaven/hell.
once jesus came the laws were full filled and evangelization, and mercy was put in place instead of killing.
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.(Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
why do you say that?