The debate "The U.S. government is pushing for socialism" was started by
April 27, 2016, 9:20 pm.
9 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 4 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
dalton7532 posted 4 arguments to the agreers part.
dalton7532, Razor, ProudAmerican888, kaitchunn and 5 visitors agree.
RANDOMEDIA, Nemiroff and 2 visitors disagree.
considering in this nation, if you work and can't afford rent and food we offer subsidized housing and food stamps. If we companies pay a minimum that can afford the local rent and food costs, it wouldn't be injecting money but instead ending corporate payroll welfare.
instead all that government assistance money can be put towards the debt or further investment.
and taxes can subsidize anything from fuel to food to medical care to transportation.
And for your statement about there minimum wage being $20 an hour, there is actually no set minimum wage by the government, allowing companies to pay what they want. The average pay for private sectors is $20. The company can raise and lower it how they see fit. That being said since it's a average there are companies that pay less much less, as well as much more. It changes as the company sees fit, not the government.
Taxes are not offsetting any of the costs I pointed out though they pay 25% on goods, 180% on vehicles, 25% on alcohol etc. Taxes go to the government funded buildings like hospitals, schools, police departments etc.
That's what an increase in money is. If you give everyone a raise what happens? inflation and the dollar bill is worth less. If you read you would see why I didn't add a raise in. Actually read this one then you won't have as many questions.
why would you only change taxes but not salary? that's not socialism, that's just broken. And where do you think the taxes go? to offset many of those costs.
and who said something about everyone having the same stuff?
The taxes % is from the EU taxes database for the country database.
I used the US salary for the taxes Denmark has. You have to count for inflation which will be near impossible to count. If everyone drives a Ferrari what's a Ferrari worth? The same as a Ford Fiesta. You can count for inflation if you want I'm not doing the math for that.
Denmark's "minimum wage" is around $20 an hour.
I have no idea where you got those salary and costs from but none of that has anything to do with Denmark.
"Those policies would not work at any other time frame except that one"
"When you have a dire situation such as the great depression, it is the only time FDR's policies will ever work."
can you show me a time when socialist policies hurt our economy?
according to an article I saw on Forbes, the economy improves far better during democratic presidencies.
I'm just debating my stance. If you didn't have reply you have just not replied and waited until you had one.
We don't need more stuff, we don't need more money. We need to stabilize inflation.
Back on socialism let's take Denmark (the primary country that people relate Socialist with) we will say you make $8 and hour 40 hours a week. in a year. that is $16000 a year. now let's add deductions. taxes 50% that leaves you with $8000. let's say you have a vehicle and insurance like most Americans well say it's fairly low $200 for both a month. that leaves you with $5600. now you need gas, well even say it's fuel efficient and you fill up for $20 a month. Now you have $5360. Now you need food so we will say every 2 weeks you spend $100 which totals to 2600 now they pay 25% on products so well add that too. Now you have $2110. now you $2110 to spend on a house can you find one in america that's less then $2110 a year? No. Now you need welfare to support you which comes from everyone else.
With that being said who really makes the money? The rich make even more.
I love how you end all your posts with some sort of declaration of victory. it's very cute.
if you really want a business lesson, then if you can replace someone with a machine that can do their job for $15 a month why would you pay someone even $7 an hour to do it? that's stupid, you would have long implemented that change, or that change doesn't exist.
lesson #2: more workers is not bad for the economy.
the immigrant will take my job, but he will need a place to live, more food will need to be produced, more stores will need to open. jobs will be created.
lesson #3: sustainability.
if most of the working citizens can barely afford food and rent, how are small businesses supposed to support themselves no matter how low their payroll costs are? the path we are on right now is not sustainable and will destroy this nation.
His policies worked for the time at hand. He raised taxes for the need of the money because we could not afford the war and the new deal with our current taxation policies.
The war was the main cause for the financial boom after WW2, not neccesarily FDR. FDR helped us get out of the recession with his socialistic policies.
Again, His policies worked for time at hand. We needed to get out of the depression. He did that. Those policies would not work at any other time frame except that one. As far as making a country prosper, his policies did not contribute to that.
When you have a dire situation such as the great depression, it is the only time FDR's policies will ever work.
Okay, so I give you $15 an hour. However, by the end of the fiscal year I will replace you with an automated system that can do your job for $15 a month. You will not be provided a job opportunity further in the company. If we do not meet our goal of automated systems by the end of the year you will be replaced with an illegal immigrant because it's cheaper for me to pay him. Also he can send the extra money he makes back home to his country and support his family at the same time I make more money. There's a business lesson.
Where do you think the funding comes from for this socialist idea? The military I remember overseas I didn't get paid for a month because the government couldn't get their budget in order. Don't say the military doesn't get cuts because it does, because self entitled people spend way above their means. I lived with a single parent who made $18,000 a year max (that was lower class) She supported 5 people including herself and made ends meet. Did we have a playstion or xbox? No. Did we make it everyday with food in our stomachs and a roof above our head? Yes.
here's another way of saying what I did earlier. if I was a business owner I would move overseas because what separates Hector in Costa Rica to bill in new york? Nothing, except Hector is harder worker then bill, and has a better reason to work. Or I own a cabage field and need to get my cabage stored, bill won't do it because 1 he doesn't think it pays enough or 2 he thinks he's better then getting cabbage. Hector however will go out there and get my cabbage for less money and do it better then bill. It's simple business
and I wasn't talking about fast food. most restaurants are mom and pop restaurants with real kitchens. most cooks work hard hours in front of a grill or a chopping board. fast food workers have a whole different set of challenges that you belittle while not understanding any of them at all.
the American people chose to elect a president who actually advocated on their behalf, so I agree. The people, working together with the government, under the direction of a very smart chief executive made us a superpower.
I don't want to cut service members pay. where the hell are you getting that from?
obviously your just assuming, not something to be proud of.
and I am against nation wide 15. I think that's stupid. 15 is probably not enough in a big city but probably wayyyy too much I'm rural west Virginia. also, about 3 out of 5 small business owners support a living wage. I think you are the one who doesn't understand economics very well.
You are one of the people who want to give cooks who heat frozen food $15 an hour but cut service members pay.
No the American people made us a superpower not a president.
That's his own fault then sorry replace him if he wants to complain. it's not my fault that's what 1 he chose to do or 2 he didn't do anything to benefit himself. I am a service member and I don't complain about my pay so I will say cooks don't need that much money.
calling a bank teller at your bank a Banker is like calling the receptionist at your doctors office a doctor.
CEOs are not business owners, they are just employees.
you avoided the question, how much do you value bankers and hedge fund managers vs doctors, scientists, and soldiers?
and how much do you value the average workers contribution? $15? $7? $1? less?
do you really believe that this radically new and detailed ECONOMIC policy had a minimal effect on the ECONOMY?!?
If it was just us dealing for the war then why isn't Switzerland a superpower too?
you can replace a cook with a student, but it better be a diligent hard working and very careful student cause otherwise he will burn food, bleed on food, trip over everyone, hold up the entire kitchen, and possibly ruin the entire restaurant.
he also has to be able to do this 6 to 7 days a week, 12 hours a day as is the typical kitchen staff schedule, often with no overtime and absolute minimum benefits.
the floor tech can absolutely be replaced by a student, it's called an apprentiship and it can be done for almost any job.
also if your going to comparing the lowest level kitchen staff, compare that to the average factory grunt worker cause I would love to see you replace a sous chef with a completely untrained rookie lol.
we became a superpower after ww2 and FDR was the president who did it.
I'll leave the question of who was better to another post, but you said he was a good president and clearly his policies worked.
his policies included an effective 94% tax on the wealthy, a hard limit on corporate salaries, instituting almost all of the social programs in the US, and breaking up the banks. He was far more extreme socialist than bernie, and whether he was greatest or just great, socialism made us prosper.
I would love to hear more of Reagan's achievements, but If you are referring to his huge tax cuts, look up his actions within weeks of those cuts as he starts raising taxes almost immediately as the nation started heading towards bankruptcy.
As for bankers the person at the front desk of my bank makes less then a teacher. Do you mean CEOs and business owners? Do you understand economy or do you you just want free stuff?
I wouldn't say FDR got us out of the depression I would say the war did and, the media.
You can replace a cook with a student you can't replace a floor tech in a factory with one though. Wake up and stop being a leach .
FDR got us out of the depression, and helped the economy. He did not make this nation a superpower. Although, he was a great president, and I will admit that.
What about Reagan? He made the U.S. more of a superpower than FDR did. His supply-side economics grew the economy by 1/3, reduced stagflation, and lowered interest rates. He also triples military spending , and stopped the Cold War.
Again, I will admit FDR helped the economy get out of the recession, and fought the WWs, but his socialistic policies did not make America a superpower.
Capitalism is the economic system in which industry owners attempt to gain profit. The fact is, they have to compete for profit regardless if they like it or not. Competition in a capitalistic system creates more quality products and lower prices for the consumer.
Yes, Capitalism has downsides, such as colliusion, and the merging of businesses. However, it is nothing that can be fixed with passing some legislation through congress. Capitalism is the least flawed out of all the economic systems.
I have 2 questions for you TWZ.
1, who decided that bankers are worth multimillions per year while even the greatest neurosurgeons only make maybe a mil, while most doctors and scientists make maybe a couple of 100,000, and cops, fire fighters and teachers make insignificant sums completely.
do you really value bankers that much?
2. do you think factory manufacturing jobs were worth that good middle class income?
if you've ever visited a busy kitchen you would see how much more work that is than a factory worker putting part a into part b all day long. the service industry also requires far more people skills in dealing with sometimes stupid customers.
factories used to pay nothing and tossed people out when the lost limbs on the job during the industrial revolution. It was "socialist" policies that made factors work be the good jobs many Republicans now miss, there is no reason we can't do the smell for service jobs.
I don't agree with socialism for the simple fact that Americans aren't worth what they think they are. That's why big businesses move to different countries. Sorry to those who work in fast food restaurants, you're aren't worth $15 an hour. That position is very expendable and if you were to quit tomorrow no one would care.
nemiroff that is almost exactly what I was going to say.
there are virtually no countries in the world that aren't capitalist. you throw around terms like capitalist and socialist like they are mutually exclusive. they are not. all modern countries have a blend of the two. America just has much less socialism than virtually all other 1st world countries. and yes that is a bad thing.
the socialist policies of FDR were what made this nation into a superpower.
capitalism only works in the presence of competition, but capitalists hate competition because competition hurts profits.
unregulated capitalism will lead to oligarchy and eventually feudalism as wealth and power increasingly concentrates in fewer and fewer hands.
Just because we are not a socialist nation does not mean that is bad. Capitalism is great. It is the best economic system in the world. It promotes lower prices and quality products. I suggest we need stop looking to at other nations for success.
I wouldn't say that's where the government is headed; however, I would say that's what the youth wants.
the American government is about 30-50 years behind the rest of the developed world on this. to call them socialist is a joke. they are one of the least socialist 1st world countries, and yes that is a bad thing.
The current people in office are pushing for a more socialistic system. That is undeniable. For example, the ACA.