The debate "The US should break up into around 30 other countries and be forced to give up their nukes" was started by
April 29, 2017, 6:50 am.
5 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 15 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
thereal posted 6 arguments to the agreers part.
neveralone posted 12 arguments, historybuff posted 5 arguments to the disagreers part.
thereal, makson and 3 visitors agree.
neveralone, Ematio, historybuff, MrShine, Nemiroff, MrLuke, SalonY and 8 visitors disagree.
so far America is the first nation to consider themselves as champions of justice. that was not always the case, we were quite isolationist, and although we may not live up to the ideal, striving for it is a step in the right direction for humanity.
many of our atrocities happened in 1 period 50s to 70s I believe off the top of my head, and the majority of them (besides official wars like vietnam) were covert CIA operations the people did not know about. the nation did not profit from our recent blunders in Iraq and Afghanistan so I don't think you can accuse us of nefarious intentions there, just a well intentioned blunder by a right wing administration.
of course everything we do we seek to benefit from, but there is more than one way to benefit. considering our unparalled military might, we could pursue much more unilateral advantageous paths, but choose for others to benefit with us. I would not support self detrimental philanthropy.
call America a hypocrite for doing good because of unrelated bad in the past is playing into the hands of evil men across the world.
though war. we should help them get back and pay for the civilians but not the past gov. war by itself sadly almost always involves civilian deaths. I would love a way to stop this when fighting erupts but there isn't one. that's why I would try peaceful means first and foremost.
"make America great again" haha ur going to get crud for that by someone but not me. we should definitely pay the people back in some way and try negations first.
whether your intention was to help or to benefit yourselves is certainly debatable. but the millions of people you have killed with "good intentions" is not.
if someone decided they are would do good by murdering an ethnic minority, would we laud them for their good intentions, they just wanted to make America great again, or condemn them for their terrible crimes? even if you intended good things, you killed many, many people and brought misery and ruin to alot of people.
we have tried to do good every time. sometimes it's misguided but it is always the intent.
we don't preach about it. we do accept that idea because as such it sounds nice but it also holds u responsible to do what that said idea states. we wish to become the land of the free and fight for what's right. bombing children? do u mean war because that is a horrible thing about war but not exclusive to just us. it doesn't make us worse than other nations. we are trying to help is that wrong?
I'm not arguing that the US should stop doing good. I'm saying they should stop doing evil. America likes to imagine? that it is some enlightened land of the free. their history is example after example of inflicting their will on others against their will. and they only tend to do good when it directly benefits themselves.
while I do not deny that other countries do that too, the other countries don't try to preach about how free they are and all the great things they do when they are bombing children.
the people who made those decisions are long dead, how long must we pay for the sins of the father's when evil men are using those exact lines regarding what we used to do to stop us from doing good now, and as an excuse to do evil now.
we should not forget we did those bad things, but neither should it stop us from doing good moving forward.
now u have become bipolar. u might want to get that checked out.
blueray and neveralone stand defeated, hanging by the tiniest last inch of the cliff before they fall again to their gloomy doom.
we were sadly but these are not things we as a nation put up as great achievements. we do not enjoy any of it. though to say we do not want others to have freedom and to help them would be ignorant.
That seems like a lot of distancing yourself from the past. "Everyone did it" isn't an excuse for a crime, and it shouldn't excuse national crimes either. "The people objected" sounds good, except that it is a lie. The people didn't object to the deaths of the Vietnamese, they objected to the impact it was having on them. Americans dying and news coverage of them coming home disenchanted some parts of the population.
Whether you personally disagree with what happened, you can't deny that the US is responsible.
again look at how the people reacted to nam. they hated them for it and directed their anger the wrong way. the president should of change strategy to actually capturing land instead of killing people.
Filipino- looked down on just like every nations expansion time. every nation did as such. we did not like that we did and don't condone the methods.
Guatamala- and we hate the cia and how the president again handled it. it was stupid and could of been done more peacefully. but again show me a nation that hasn't done something like this in the past.
nam- that is the people's fault. they were so terrified of communist that it would of been suicide not to do so. if it could of went differently we would change it. and yet again show me a nation that supported an bad side
I can keep going. these are certainly not the only examples. and I could go at some length about the atrocities committed by the Americans in Vietnam. I'm curious how you think that was an accident? it certainly wasn't what they were hoping for, but someone ordered all these people killed.
if you think the US isn't responsible for the deaths of millions, you clearly don't know much about history.
the Filipino-American war - America killed approximately 600,000 Filipinos in a terror campaign so they could illegally occupy them.
1954 Guatamala - the CIA topples a democratically elected government to protect a private American company. this causes decades of military dictatorship and successive coups killing hundreds of thousands.
Vietnam - America invades a country to attempt to prolong France's colonial control. estimates of the death toll are well over a million people. add to the civilians illegally bombed in Cambodia and Laos, approximately 150,000.
if you think the US was really responsible for deaths of millions, then you are wrong....
Vietnam was an accident....
Still it saved more lives than any other super powers in 20th century (USSR or Japan or PRC or UK or France )
it's nice that u like my name so much that u want to change urs to it but I rather keep mine thanks.
Its about time they stopped giving arms to IS as well pretending that theyre dedicated to stopping them or some shit. Everybody knows IS is a US proxy.
does it not concern u that u agree with someone who's whole intent is to troll?
we have the owned up to our past problems but I would not say anyone has a right to say we are grabbing land when every nation has. we have our flaws but the people do fight for freedom. check every war advertising that ever went to the people. it was always freedom and justice.
US os the only country which uses its "noble pretexts" as an excuse to break international law. This pariah state is out of control and its brutal regime has to be dissolved.
On this day, neveralone was killed again for the hundredth time. As he crawls into his mothers basement and rolls into a hysterical, shaken ball, the sun descends along the horizon to signal the end of the day and his life.
I am literally speechless. thereal wrote a full argument that I completely agree with.
America is the only country that claims to be so noble and fails so rediculously hard. they claim to fight for a people's right to self determination, then go on wars of colonial expansion. (please see Spanish American war) they claim to fight for freedom then try to enforce French colonialism on a people fighting to throw off European oppression.
they claim to value democracy but establish dictators anywhere that is convenient. (see Guatamala or Iran)
America has done what every other powerful nation in history has, whatever is in their interest. they are just the first to pretend that they are doing it for freedom. the hypocrisy of fighting for freedom while propping up tyranny seems to be lost on America though.
check ur history. we came up with the idea.
all those u listed were for moral reasons besides Korea and vietnam. they were done because otherwise would of been political suicide. I'm almost laughing that u forgot the two biggest wars that we fought in which saved thousands.
we are a young nation yet we are the only super power left and have helped many other nations. would u like more?
haha ur whole argument is a laugh. show me a nation that has done better and I bet I could show u slaughters, war, and weapons that have killed millions and in some cases an crippled government
Firstly, no America did not " make the UN". There were 51 NATIONS which founded the UN, the US was only ONE of them. Typical stupid American trying to take credit for everything.
Secondly, the US has not "fought to save millions" rather it has fought to KILL MILLIONS for its own monetary and military interests like it did in Iraq, Afghanistan, VIETNAM (where it used chemical weapons), Korea, Japan (where it dropped 2 of the only nukes ever dropped in history), Iran (where it had a puppet dictator oppressing the people), Cuba (when it tried to prevent them from getting nukes so that they would be the only ones who had them and then could bully everyone else in the region) etc. It literally fought to keep Vietnam a French colony when the Vietnamese fought for independence and it even used CHEMICAL WEAPONS to advance that agenda. Yet you say they "fought to save millions"? Typical stupid American unaware of world events.
Thirdly, how has it made "excellent strides in the world" like literally could you be any more vague? the fact that you couldnt actually specify anything there shows you dont know shit and are, once again, a typical stupid american.
Fourthly, the fact that it made the nuke is one of the reasons why they are bad. so what you just did there was state a point which supports my argument. typical stupid americans, they are so indictrinated that its unbelievable.
yet America made the UN, has fought to save millions, has made excellent strides in the world, is the only super power, and made the nuke(shouldn't of been made but was) and other technology advances.
so do u actually believe what u say or do u just like to anger people?
Well why isnt it a good idea? the US has consistently proved that it has no respect for international law or human lives and is not rational enough to be able to handle such powerful weapons.
how is this in any way a good idea unless ur nk?